# An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742 "2022-03-09T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1432 "2022-03-19T04:14:30Z")
But I am allowed to still ‘think of the children’ right? I mean working for the newbros is kind of my thing. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Hell, even Mike Azariah, the guy famous for giving out free ships to newbros signed this open letter. all the ships I hand out were made by players, assembled by me or donors. m ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1433 "2022-03-19T04:16:27Z")
I was going to qualify that statement with,“There’s only one player I know that actually cares about the children”. But I thought it would muddy up the point I was making. Edit: Now I feel bad. Would a hundred Incursus make it up to you? Edit2: Contract is up. It has a week on it. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1434 "2022-03-19T04:20:04Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > In fact, consider this -a sub is technically P2W as it gives you a rather large advantage in exchange for cash. However, even vehemently anti-P2W players are fine with subs. Why? Because of the introduction of Alpha. Before Alpha the issue was non-existent. And that was right, as the New Eden was effectively insulated from the Terran money, just leaving no legal possibility for P2W. ---
**Author:** ![WilliamMays](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/williammays/32/453621_2.png) [@WilliamMays](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/WilliamMays)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1435 "2022-03-19T04:30:42Z")
Just becuase it’s in the middle of the picture, doesn’t mean its the balanced or most correct way. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1436 "2022-03-19T04:31:18Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > all the ships I hand out were made by players, assembled by me or donors. You cannot possibly know that. It is entirely possible that one of the frigates or destroyers came from a CCP value pack. Besides, don’t you hand out BPCs, too? ---
**Author:** ![Luke\_Perceptinator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luke_perceptinator/32/311559_2.png) [@Luke\_Perceptinator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luke_Perceptinator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1437 "2022-03-19T04:44:09Z")
Yeah CCP you need to take the fitted ship out of the sale, please, this is going to break the ‘Player Driven’ economy u love to use as a - sign up to eve - selling point. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1438 "2022-03-19T04:45:18Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Besides, don’t you hand out BPCs, too? yup, I make those copies myself (most of them) in a station near where I used to live in a pos and do industry stuff. artisinal and handmade m ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1439 "2022-03-19T05:12:56Z")
> [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > One of the topics for Fanfest is a new project that we’re in the middle of developing, that will transform these and any future packs - a paradigm where packs of this type will be supplied by players Please Swift - could you confirm or deny that this involves _players_ selling ships for RL money and/or cryptocurrencies? ---
**Author:** ![Mia\_Havoc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mia_havoc/32/312520_2.png) [@Mia\_Havoc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mia_Havoc)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1440 "2022-03-19T05:23:01Z")
Instead of doing these things you know will antagonize your player base in the first place, why don’t you just try what they’re telling you and introduce way better paid cosmetic options instead? Seems like a no brainer! ---
**Author:** ![MajorBean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/majorbean/32/382916_2.png) [@MajorBean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MajorBean)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1441 "2022-03-19T05:30:39Z")
> [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > a paradigm where packs of this type will be supplied by players, ensuring that any ship we offer to new players through sales **The monkey’s paw strikes again!** ---
**Author:** ![Thematic\_Chaos\_Eto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thematic_chaos_eto/32/424283_2.png) [@Thematic\_Chaos\_Eto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thematic_Chaos_Eto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1442 "2022-03-19T05:38:24Z")
Sad really, you are conning the new players into buying the mining pack after you broke the whole point of gaining skills to the point where using the base I’m a no skill miner can mine without loss into a ‘hey look , I can pay real money to buy a pack to get me closer to REAL loss of efficiency - I see no benefit to encouraging new players to purchase something that is broken, other than to rip them off by disguising pay to lose as pay to win and make money doing it… ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1443 "2022-03-19T05:43:11Z")
> [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > intending to introduce a **career-entry level option for mining** in the future Does the career mission sequence featuring Venture the Awesome not serve this purpose? (highlight in the quote is current poster addition) ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1444 "2022-03-19T06:00:13Z")
Could the new career entry level mission for mining introduce new pilots into a very safe space zone such as Isanamo? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1445 "2022-03-19T06:03:15Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Okay, but how does selling crap fit ships at inflated prices to newbros who haven’t yet learned PvP avoidance help them? Oh yeah, that’s going to level the playing field and help newbros find their footing. Why aren’t you asking the more relevant question…which is why are noobs in Ventures being targeted in the first place. Only the other day I saw a case where a 21 day old noob had his Venture destroyed twice in a row…by some ganker who was _proud_ of it ! And you think _that_ is going to keep people in the game ? Of course people have to learn the ropes…that its a cruel universe…yada yada. But the whole 'dont fly what you can’t afford to lose ’ mantra is meaningless for someone who is left with 5K ISK and a Velator who’s ore hold fills up just in time for the heat death of the universe. Incidentally…no-one ever tells noobs that it is possible to assemble a mining Venture for just 300K ISK using gaussian lasers. It will only mine 161 m3 per minute, but is _way_ cheaper than the 4m ISK version most noobs are flying around…and far better than the Velator. And it pays for itself in one trip ! ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1446 "2022-03-19T06:14:21Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The packs are aimed at newbies. In what way is relatively advanced Omega-only ship aimed at newbies? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1447 "2022-03-19T06:18:05Z")
> [@Khlaa\_Sor](#): > > In what way is relatively advanced Omega-only ship aimed at newbies? I was on Omega within days of starting Eve…precisely in order to get the more advanced ships. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1449 "2022-03-19T06:27:42Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Look. the CSM worked hard and long to get the devs to say something, damn near anything, here. That’s great, thank you, but why are you annoyed? The line from CCP doesn’t allay concerns, there’s no apology or suggestion they’ll never sell ships for real money again. There is also a suggestion of further monetisation strategies coming at FanFest - which sounds very similar to the Black Market AH in Albion Online. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > The other thing I wanted to mention is our (the players) tendency to ‘shoot the messenger’. In a word? Don’t. Completely agree. Although unless I’ve missed a post, I see a lot of anger at CCP for their monetisation strategy, which is entirely valid, but I’ve not seen any personal attacks on @CCP_Swift. Bit of an appeal to emotion fallacy here. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1450 "2022-03-19T06:50:25Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > > [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > > > Additionally, the CSM will now have a quarterly meeting to discuss specifically these types of packs and other commerce topics. > > This was a surprise to me. Not an unwelcome one. But before you hang you hopes on this? Discussing something does not mean that the CSM will be able to stop or turn the path of CCP, just tell them what is a bad idea and hope that they listen. Wait … So Brisc and team all-star complains about a thing, and CCP steamrollers on to do the thing. Moreover, it insists the CSM rubber-stamps the thing — and you are okay with that because — well, I’m not sure is it because CSA gets to pat the thing? I have some re-evaluating to do. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1451 "2022-03-19T06:57:45Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > But communication is always better than silence. No, that is wrong. Terrible communication is even worse than silence because it gives even better fuel to the (justified) rage of the customers. Actually helpful communication would have been that they tell us this was a mistake, especially how it’s being put forward to new players and coerces them into thinking this is a good deal when it’s really not at all for them, and that they don’t do that kind of crap again in this fashion. The point that they want to provide these packs in the future with player made stuff is good but it remains to be seen how CCP implements this. Following the many years of screw ups they can’t expect people to think too highly of that announcement. One of the pain points of this pack was the price. It was ridiculously overpriced for the value it gives to new players. PR said: > For others, however, this path can be hard to find or feel intimidating, so they go it alone. We’ve spent much of 2020 and 2021 devoting resources to researching these players and trying to find ways to help them through early content barriers. Translation: We figured out that CCP can profit even more from the “misery” of these people. We can suggest packs to them that are completely overpriced, offer terribly fitted tools for game activities, and make it look like we help these already struggling people. However, in case of the ships, and this class of ships in particular, don’t even provide a benefit that could last long enough to recoup the cost. They could lose their 25 Euro Retreiver within minutes after undocking but they spent more than 2 months worth of game time equivalent money on it. That does not help anyone but CCP’s wallet. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > The other thing I wanted to mention is our (the players) tendency to ‘shoot the messenger’. In a word? Don’t. Then say who the real perpetrators are. 🤷 If they keep hiding behind the messengers, there’s nothing else to shoot. That’s another thing about communication. The messenger didn’t do anything wrong, but they are being used as scapegoats so that the real culprits for all this justified outrage don’t have to deal with the consequences of their toxic actions. It would have been a better communication behavior if that person had released that post and not the spokes person. That way people would know who is responsible for these terrible decisions and could keep an eye on them as opposed to the wrong people or only the messenger. ![REDNES](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/6/5/96524d53cb22e8d34dff925203908c55729b363e.png) ---
**Author:** ![Pur3Bl00D](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pur3bl00d/32/384679_2.png) [@Pur3Bl00D](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pur3Bl00D)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1452 "2022-03-19T07:09:04Z")
In a game having PLEX CCP you are seriously MONETIZING THE GAME more, do you want to kill your game? i dont want you to kill my game [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=67) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=69)