# An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742 "2022-03-09T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![Warn1nG\_Soul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warn1ng_soul/32/273477_2.png) [@Warn1nG\_Soul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warn1nG_Soul)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1640 "2022-03-22T13:05:30Z")
/signed ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1641 "2022-03-22T13:15:18Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Here you go. > > > [@](#): > > > > Capsuleers, We hear your concerns about the Prospector Pack. As all EVE players know and remember, being a new pilot in New Eden has many challenges. Some players are lucky enough to make their way into player corporations quickly, where they are shown the ropes and supported by our veterans. For others, however, this path can be hard to find or feel intimidating, so they go it alone. We’ve spent much of 2020 and 2021 devoting resources to researching these players and trying to find ways to h… > > tl;dr: They will not stop selling ships in the money store, but they will try to launder them trough the industry system, so it’s all fine now and they hope they can get away with it this way. > > Oh and it’s of course all for the children _new players_, so you can’t be against it. It’s immoral to pick apart a reason given if it’s stated to be intended for the benefit of children _new players_! It means you hate children _new players_ and that makes you a bad person! So wait … what ? They will make use of ingame built ships and sell them for real cash to new players ? Does the ingame industrialist get a cut for his time essentially working for CCP ? Or … not … ? In which the latter, would be just a big LOL ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1642 "2022-03-22T13:38:03Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Does the ingame industrialist get a cut for his time essentially working for CCP ? They haven’t yet announced if they’re going to be using RMT kickbacks or slave labor, no. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1643 "2022-03-22T14:51:57Z")
Ok, so how will they siphon the new player deal back through industrialists then ? ---
**Author:** ![Ranshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranshe/32/468747_2.png) [@Ranshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranshe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1644 "2022-03-22T14:58:40Z")
Everything we know is up there in Swift’s post, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1645 "2022-03-22T15:16:34Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > They will make use of ingame built ships and sell them for real cash to new players ? It sounds ridiculous when you write it this way and this could drive away new players if they read this. Please describe it in the future as “offered as an option to players who value their time”, or we are ruining CCP’s new business model, which is based on a polished store front instead of a good game. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Does the ingame industrialist get a cut for his time essentially working for CCP ? > > Or … not … ? > > In which the latter, would be just a big I mean they don’t even pay their forum moderators (ISD) and customer relations consultants (CSM). It seems people are competing with each other already to work for free for that company. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1646 "2022-03-22T15:22:44Z")
lol None of those positions relate as much directly to ingame asset production for RL cash though. Not to mention the legality of it, but they could probably figure out a way to twist around it, upon accepting EULA, so no lawsuits could follow … ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1647 "2022-03-22T15:27:43Z")
They will probably add some NPC that buys fitted ships for some kind of LP or some stuff and then pretend like it’s those ships they use in the packs. CCP owns all the assets anyway, I don’t think there is a legal issue. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1648 "2022-03-22T15:29:24Z")
Hold on, while I go vomit in a corner somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ranshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranshe/32/468747_2.png) [@Ranshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranshe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1649 "2022-03-22T15:42:28Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > They will probably add some NPC that buys fitted ships for some kind of LP or some stuff and then pretend like it’s those ships they use in the packs. Yeah this seems most probable. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1650 "2022-03-22T15:51:52Z")
Whatever solution they come up with, I’ll bet it is somehow skewed to benefit the nullsec blue donut. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1651 "2022-03-22T16:25:19Z")
> [@L0rdF1end](#): > > Have you seen how long it takes to train to get into some basic T2 ships? T2 ships aren’t _basic_, by definition. It does not take much time to get into T1 ships. Even T1 battleships aren’t a long train. ---
**Author:** ![L0rdF1end](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/l0rdf1end/32/407407_2.png) [@L0rdF1end](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/L0rdF1end)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1652 "2022-03-22T19:05:23Z")
The game is incredibly hard to balance. I’d like to see logon skill bonus scale with SP of character. Help the new bro’s catch up a little faster. And keep them logging in. ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1653 "2022-03-22T20:18:10Z")
I support the sale of a fitted mining barge. It is simply ridiculous to expect that eve online would not change with the rest of the industry, even a little. It’s still a company, and they need paying players in order to exist. I think all of us can agree that we prefer eve online to remain in existence, yes? So either recruit friends and family, stream, make youtube videos, or whatever. bring people in. Until then, and probably even then, there will be options for spending money. A fit barge, selling small amounts of sp, skill injectors and extractors, and cosmetics will not break the game. There is no draw for new players if there is no way for them to compete with older players. While that is true in most of life, and still remains true in eve online, that means anyone just coming in is at a distinct disadvantage. I should think that the player base would stop complaining about every little change and maybe think about the long term survival of this game we cherish. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1654 "2022-03-22T20:33:29Z")
> [@Remi\_Lacroix](#): > > I think all of us can agree that we prefer eve online to remain in existence, yes? If the price of that is to watch it turn into this disaster? No. I’d prefer it bowed out while it had some dignity left. A lot of players in this day and age won’t get the experience of training battleship 4 to 5. Every, single, agonizing skill point of it. They won’t get the appreciation of the improvement of that last level, or so many others like it. Simply buying your way to skills is exactly detrimental to the long term survival of this game, because there are soooooo many others out there that you can do the exact same thing and let’s be honest, they look and play a whole lot more ‘fun’ than Eve. Eve can’t compete in that realm, there are too many issues in the base code that this team of developers utterly lack the skills to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1655 "2022-03-22T20:44:32Z")
you’ve been able to buy your sp for years now. hasn’t killed the game yet. The issue you’re facing that I’m not is that you’re looking at old eve vs current. Yes, a sense of accomplishment is good, but if you want any new players you have to adapt to the general gamer population. A 2nd job video game isn’t viable for the majority of people, especially right now. As for the battleship skills, marauder is the go to for most people. As for other games having pay to win methods, eve doesnt. You cant pay to win. Even if you have 300m sp, you can be killed by a good pilot with 20m sp. The disadvantage comes in being able to fly the ships you might want. Spending years to do so isnt viable anymore. It’s really never been viable, thats why eve has never been a mainstream game. Even bitter vets dont like it, unless it’s time to talk down on newer players. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1656 "2022-03-22T20:55:09Z")
Bold of you to assume you’re so enlightened. It is, however, an assumption, and an incorrect one at that. Catering to the lowest common denominator will not keep a game like this one alive. Trying to make this a ‘mass appeal’ game will not make players flock to it. You have the general sentiment of the importance of ability vs raw SP correct, but you’re also somehow failing to acknowledge that Eve does\* have p2w methods. It does. They may not be so blatant as dabbing the 2 key in World of Tanks, for example, but what you’re putting forward here that ‘oh well, I don’t like waiting on a ship so it’s okay for CCP to sell it to me’ is that. Maybe your 300m sp raven will still die to a 20m sp dude in a catalyst but, but me being able to buy, inject, and then hey, buy the ship too, from CCP a fleet of accounts to do ‘insert thing’ is definitely me paying for a major advantage. As for your assertion that veteran players don’t like it unless it’s time to talk down to new players, well, hey, if that’s how _you_ operate, I guess you do you. But don’t project your own behavior onto me. ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1657 "2022-03-22T21:03:03Z")
evidence suggests otherwise. Making entry easier means more player retention. Ignore the current gamer culture, and you fade into oblivion, like so many others. Eve needs newer players that arent as risk adverse as veterans. This is why eve has stagnated. Hard entry, too many gatekeepers, and then the current playerbase. Having an advantage of alts is not pay to win. I have a ton of alts, and unlike charlie sheen, I am not winning. That is beside the fact that alts don’t mean a whole lot unless you’re really good at switching between alts and maintaining them in battle. Things like eve-o do make that easier, but you’re not going to defend sov by yourself with just your own alts, for example. same with wormholes. My assertion that bittervets dont like it unless it’s time to talk down on players is not how I operate. I’m not even considered a veteran player compared to bittervets. Feel free to jump around corps and get a taste of how the bittervets operate and talk. I’ve done so. I’ve been in every major alliance in eve online for the last 5 years. Just like buying clothes, I like to try things out before I consider dedication. Also, don’t make this a you vs me thing. It isnt. I don’t know you or care about you, just as you don’t about me. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1658 "2022-03-22T21:11:48Z")
> [@Remi\_Lacroix](#): > > I’ve been in every major alliance in eve online for the last 5 years. Just like buying clothes, I like to try things out before I consider dedication. Sounds like you’re a pretty bitter player to me. Also, what evidence do you claim to be citing? Because last I checked, concurrent player count was down so low that roamers can’t find things to shoot, so they quit. Or else the political arrangement between alliances in game has made it so everyone can’t shoot anyone. And just because _you_ can’t utilize your alts that well doesn’t mean people can’t. I can’t anymore, but I used to be pretty good at it back ‘in the day.’ Back when I could regularly log in to 40k+ people on line, every day, plenty of people out in space looking for fights and pretty much able to count on at least one good scrap almost every day. Back when Eve was still marketed toward the spy, the fleet admiral, and the PVP’er. Here’s what I know. You claim you’re not old enough to be a bitter vet, but you’re claiming the only way to fix Eve is to dumb it down and make it a credit card check out stand, and your reason for the claim is you’ve been around so long to see that the problem with eve is bitter vets being too risk adverse and gatekeeping too hard. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/1659 "2022-03-22T21:22:11Z")
oh, sure. i’m bitter because i am picky about who I surround myself with _rolls eyes_ Evidence I cite is experience with huge swaths of the player base, in multiple corps and alliances, across multiple characters. Used to be good money to make and sell characters on the bazaar. I don’t care about your experience over a decade ago. That has no bearing on the current game or playerbase. So now I can’t utilize my alts? funny, I’m a miner and producer. I operate 10 alts all day, every day. I have seen the people trying the same with combat situations. They suffer heavy losses, in the best circumstances. Unless you have input operation from 3rd party programs, which violates the eula, you’re not doing much with more than maybe a couple of characters at a time. Unless you mine. I’m not old enough to be a bittervet, but that does not mean I am too stupid to see how things work. Dumb eve down? Even mining and production has gotten more complex. It’s harder for 1 person to be a decent production source without outside help. Be that the market, or a group of people working towards a goal. Production lines are more expensive now than even a year ago. As for bittervets being too risk adverse, evidence is everywhere. Besides the failed attempt of pretty much all of null attacking goonswarm, when was the last major conflict? Content is dying out due to lack of bodies. You’re arguing that you’d rather see eve die than pull in new players. That’s a you issue, and it makes your opinion worthless. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=77) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=79)