# Anti-Gank (AG) Methods: **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212 "2017-11-28T15:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/283 "2017-11-29T16:59:07Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > No offense, but seeing ag’s service record when it comes to saving freighters, I wouldn’t even ask them to save my ship if it was about to get ganked Just sitting around on the forums repeating the same crap (no offence) that hundreds of other butthurt miners have repeated before… as full of wind as a sick cow, but unable to produce anything even as useful as milk. That’s what I enjoy about these “grr gankers” threads. Lots of theories, that often do not take existing game mechanics into account… and very little or no substance. That’s why I keep coming back. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/284 "2017-11-29T17:00:03Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The same could be said of CODEs track record for not destroying a licensed capsuleer. there has never been a case of legitimate compliant capsuleer being ganked or harmed in any way. not one. ever. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/285 "2017-11-29T17:01:51Z")
Most of these theories/ideas (like the command destroyer one) can so easily be turned against them I like those guys because they realize that if they can, so can we 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/286 "2017-11-29T17:03:28Z")
So many words they spent on command destroyer theories, even though they are not working like that in high sec. As long as they continue to waste their energies on things that are not able to work (because of game mechanics) they will never make any progress. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/287 "2017-11-29T17:03:29Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Most of these theories/ideas (like the command destroyer one) can so easily be turned against them You didnt turn that against anyone. I myself was the one that showed its not useable in HS, nor would it be of any use to AG even if it was. March was just exploring what he thought might be an option. Turns out, it wasnt. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/288 "2017-11-29T17:04:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I myself was the one that showed its not useable in HS, nor would it be of any use to AG even if it was. I would say (looking at time stamps and the thread) that I WAS THE FIRST one to say that it would not be useable in high sec… BECAUSE THE MODULE DOES NOT WORK IN HIGH SEC. ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/289 "2017-11-29T17:05:53Z")
I think you need to separate the technical question of is it feasible to intervene and stop ‘a’ Suicide Gank from is it feasible to consistently stop enough SG’s to make a difference such that either a) people will pay for the protection or b) the number of freighters ganked will reduce. Are you trying to theory craft something you can do in game a coupe of times, or something you can replicate consistently, and with consistent numbers? And if you are considering offering protection as a service with a cost you MUST consider that the whales who are largely the targets you will be asked to protect, would not be whales if they were willing to increase their costs (lower their reward) to offset their risk? Of course some may just be ill-informed as to the risk (Crimewatch instructional video for instance does say ‘you can be attacked anywhere’, but no official video on what an SG is and why eve does not have powerful NPC’s to attack haulers as other games would, but powerful police to both create and punish player criminals who take the place of these ‘rats’ in other games) , But… by offering your protection they would become informed and may decide they can take the necessary steps themselves without your protection. HOWEVER… as what you are describing is really interceding in a PVE encounter between the ganker and the police, perhaps approach it as a criminal would approach using mechanics to engage kill someone doing incursions or missions in high sec- which means baiting, so they think they have chosen you as a target but you have chosen them, and you still have to deal with the intel issue. If you are escorting a given freighter (and it is not a trap of your making, say freighter switches to AP in system were you have pilots logged off ready or something, with spais of course) then the gankers will always know what you have and can always bring more, but they can be spread out until battcall, so without real good spais how do you know what you need or need to bring. Basically if you cant control the engagement, or have enough numbers you can always bring more, they will always get the job done. I think it is a logistical problem first. Now developing these techniques as techniques amongst others, and not limiting yourself by NEVER using the SG yourself, and passing these techniques on to the players you ‘protect’ you might have an effect, however Why not SG sometimes? Why not SG to reduce numbers THEN use ECM and LOGI to keep the target alive? I get that you do not want to ‘leave it to concord’ but THEY are the ‘rats’, the police. If AG is to fit into New Eden they must realise they are vigilantes and DO NOT operate within the law, in eVe the law punishes it does not protect, if Concord wanted to ‘protect’ the unwary, they would bring logi and ecm of their own to protect the target. What you are offering is more like a private body guard service, or a private security firm You might take pains not to ‘break the law’ but you do not operate ‘within the law’ either, and cannot replace the Police as they are Rats pure and simple. If you want to test it in theory you need a gank fleet a freighter and some logi and ecm on the test server, I guess Doing it in game is all about logistics, intel, and sustainability and most importantly, would the freighter pilots who NEED the service, want it, once they knew why it was required? The ones that still would, as unwilling to change their own behaviours, which you would inevitably correct as you are not running a protection racket, would likely not want to pay as why take the risks hey do if they were not trying to max reward and ignore risk. **_I suppose you could just ‘save’ people without asking first, and then tell them they need to pay x for the service, however without your own gank fleet ready I doubt you would get paid consistently_** And then it is a protection racket? I actually thing if you sold AG as an old school Scicilian mafia type organisation ‘protecting their people, in their community’, for a price of course, and you camped out a few pipes and dealt with things this way, you could get a few numbers on board… But some freighters would have to die? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/290 "2017-11-29T17:05:56Z")
> [@Super\_Perforator](#): > > I would say (looking at time stamps and the thread) that I WAS THE FIRST one to say that it would not be useable in high sec… BECAUSE THE MODULE DOES NOT WORK IN HIGH SEC. I was already constructing my post before you posted your shorter, not as informative quip. The difference was a matter of seconds, however my post had more content. But if being “first” somehow means something to you, go ahead and think you where. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/291 "2017-11-29T17:07:54Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > But if being “first” somehow means something to you, go ahead and think you where. I don’t need to think I was. I was. And you were not. Of course you were editing your post… that’s why you would have been first. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/292 "2017-11-29T17:08:12Z")
Can you give us a TLDR? Preferably in numbered/itemized form. Its very difficult to understand what you mean or respond concisely to your format. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/293 "2017-11-29T17:09:11Z")
More sense here than in the rest of the thread combined (my own and CODE. posts excepted of course). ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/294 "2017-11-29T17:10:09Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Can you give us a TLDR? OMG. I think with that post you win the thread. AG in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/295 "2017-11-29T17:11:33Z")
Go play some EVE instead of spamming crap all over my thread, ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/296 "2017-11-29T17:13:01Z")
Its my shift to deal with idiotic stuff on the forums (we divide it up, because there is so much and it is so tedious / repetitive). And I will post all over what you call “your” thread if I want to. I already made 10 times more sense than you did… than you could. ---
**Author:** ![Pestilen\_Ratte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pestilen_ratte/32/42087_2.png) [@Pestilen\_Ratte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pestilen_Ratte)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/297 "2017-11-29T17:22:45Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Seeing as the entire gank fleet (except for those assigned to grab loot and scan scouts) will nonetheless be wrecked by CONCORD, what should be/is the rational cost/participant base for a 3rd player party base to intervene in/preventing the success of a gank effort? Notwithstanding the immensely frustrating/redudant use of separators/division-symbols in your text/prose, it would seem/appear to me that most ganks/executions are over in the first tens of seconds/fraction of a minute. So any third party/random-passer-by would need to have amazing intel/intuition in order to know what was happening/happened. ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/298 "2017-11-29T17:24:11Z")
I will try. I think you are asking two questions 1. Can a Suicide gank be thwarted such that the target survives, without those assisting going criminal or using SG. This is a theoretical question, the answer will be yes but it depends on numbers, you can test what those numbers are on test server 2. Is this transformable into a sustainable activity in game, such that it could be offered as a service? If so you need to consider a) everything any other entity has to consider, costs etc b) you need to ask who is paying for the service, and if it is those you are protecting you Must consider the real problem- -if they were willing to incur a cost for their safety would they be a target and why pay you -if they are willing, but ill informed, how do you stop them from just doing the usual stuff themselves, once you tell them as you are a good guy. - I also think you need to consider that Concord are the police, and they are Rats, and the SG/Concorde encounter is a PVE encounter. By trying to ‘protect’ and not just punish, you may not be ‘breaking the law’ but you are not ASSISTING concord, you are not police, but vigilantes. - I then made a suggestion as to how you could run an organisation that might be sustainable in this way, modelled on the old school sicilian mafia, who protected their own, and did not turn to the police, eg. a protection racket. Were if you save them and they don’t pay you gank them yourself. I think it was more nuanced and actually not that hard to follow, but that was my TLDR in any case EVEN shorter TLDR- eve doesn’t have strong rats to add risk to trading/hauling other very lucrative PVP activities, they have strong RATS called Concord who create criminals to add this risk to these activities. If you want to intervene in this officially sanctioned treatment of crime, which is to punish the perpetrator for the illegal act, but not protect those who put themselves in a position to be attacked, you may need to accept that you are in a grey area relative to the law and act and plan accordingly, and be willing to think and act as a criminal yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/299 "2017-11-29T17:24:44Z")
> [@Pestilen\_Ratte](#): > > it would seem/appear to me that most ganks/executions are over in the first tens of seconds/fraction of a minute. So any third party/random-passer-by would need to have amazing intel/intuition in order to know what was happening/happened. Most ganks in 0.5 systems are over in about 20 seconds. This is one of the problems the OP is continually refusing to address / consider. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/300 "2017-11-29T17:25:06Z")
> [@Pestilen\_Ratte](#): > > it would seem/appear to me that most ganks/executions are over in the first tens of seconds/fraction of a minute. So any third party/random-passer-by would need to have amazing intel/intuition in order to know what was happening/happened. Unless the AG escort is already flying alongside the target, or if an AG escort can help the target into warp before it is bumped or the gank fleet arrives. Which would you engage? An escorted target, or one that isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Perforator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/super_perforator/32/219579_2.png) [@Super\_Perforator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Super_Perforator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/301 "2017-11-29T17:26:51Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Which would you engage? > > An escorted target, or one that isn’t? I love engaging escorted / protected targets, when not even the escort / protection… because I know it is useless. So that might be a way of distracting… ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212/302 "2017-11-29T17:27:15Z")
But if you are with the target, and formidable enough to be a threat to the gankers, you will have protected your ‘customer’ but not stopped ‘a gank’ as they will pick another target That is another reason why I think you need to consider whether you want to offer protection as a service Or ‘go after’ the SG’s or a specific group. Cant have op success without clear operational goals. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-gank-ag-methods/42212.md?page=16)