# Anti-Ganking needs to stop being Anti-Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 17, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136 "2022-02-17T00:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/101 "2022-02-21T23:07:47Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Lots of players just want to buy ships and blow them up. Miners enable that. Etch, it’s been said before but will (I hope) bear repetition: CCP _could_ have all mining performed by NPCs, leaving PvP-warrior types to devise interesting ways of plundering their harvests, and serious Industry players to factor-in novel variables. It could be done (though not without perspiration). The Company _wants_ to offer miners a fully-fledged and absorbing playstyle, but if it’s too absorbing we see mewling posts about over-complication, and if it’s too simple the same miners complain of boredom. There would still be a game, of sorts, under such a regime, but I believe it would be an impoverished one. Playing-Miners would not be necessary at all for the mere _extraction_ of ores. The rest could be performed by NPC haulers and processors, or even interested Industrialists. There’s a reason that mining appears to be the most bot-able activity in the game. I am no more grateful for miners than they are grateful for gankers. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/102 "2022-02-21T23:18:12Z")
I’ll ignore the thinly veiled hostility “if this miner thinks he has any worth we will just replace him with an NPC. That will show the uppity little sh\*t”. Lol joke. I mean how is that good for the game on any level. All ore comes from npc’s? So presumably NPC set a the ore prices and competition for industrialists goes out the window because they can’t set buy orders? Sounds great. And then when the explorers get uppity why not just get Npc’s to sell salvage. I mean some people find that boring and not very engaging. May as well just axe that to. To what end? Constant supply at a CCP determined isk price point? I’m really not sure what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/103 "2022-02-21T23:20:38Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Thanks for trying to help, but I’ll pass on the gaslighting for now. It’s gotta be one or the other, it can’t really be both at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/104 "2022-02-21T23:26:11Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > The Company _wants_ to offer miners a fully-fledged and absorbing playstyle Let’s not forget why: a solid two-thirds of contemporary gamers are interested in nothing but a casual clicking emulator, which is the reason why the mobile game market is worth like ten times the amount that the regular console/PC gaming market is worth. These EVE miners are coming from _somewhere._ > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I mean how is that good for the game on any level. All ore comes from npc’s? So presumably NPC set a the ore prices and competition for industrialists goes out the window because they can’t set buy orders? Sounds great. Listen, before this whole “Orca” and “Rorqual” nonsense, pretty much like **two-thirds** of the minerals in the game came from rogue drones, T1 loot reprocessing, and null-sec hauler spawn drops. And no one complained. The game worked _just fine._ ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/105 "2022-02-21T23:28:32Z")
Sasha is pro ganking, at least as far as I’m aware, but is not at all forum hostile, and I doubt he means to be derogatory. It looks to me like an expression of technical feasibility and of the difficulty of satisfying all desires at once even within a single sphere of gamer activity preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/106 "2022-02-21T23:30:01Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The game worked _just fine._ Just fine seems like a fairly low bar. That’s how I describe the wife’s cooking and believe me when I say nobody wants to be subjected to that. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/107 "2022-02-21T23:31:49Z")
Semantics. Look, I know you don’t like hearing this, but you’re going to have to come to terms with the fact that despite how you _personally_ feel about the activity, high-sec mining just _isn’t that important._ ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/108 "2022-02-21T23:31:56Z")
Hence why I put the word joke in there. I was jesting with regard to the uppity miner thing. I know he meant no offence 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/109 "2022-02-21T23:34:33Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I’m really not sure what your point is. Etch, I sought only to disparage your stated assertion that miners enable warriors to pursue their activities. It is not _miners_ who do this, but _materials_ fashioned into products, by manufacturers, which are bought and used by those warriors. The ores, specifically, do not have to be extracted by player-characters. You spent some time dismissing my poorly-argued comments about NPC miners. It would, of course, require a great deal of work; certainly more than I have given it! ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/110 "2022-02-21T23:37:03Z")
It’s a game. None of it is important. End of the day. I and countless others are doing something we enjoy. That’s good for us. That means there is ore on the market. That’s good for others. Especially others that hate mining. That’s the game working as intended. Is it not? Why is it so important to you guys that the minute someone says they enjoy mining that they must be put in their place? ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/111 "2022-02-21T23:38:40Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > It is not _miners_ who do this, but _materials_ fashioned into products Where do those materials currently come from. Did I miss the update where trit, pyrite etc were no longer required to build ships? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/112 "2022-02-21T23:42:16Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Why is it so important to you guys that the minute someone says they enjoy mining that they must be put in their place? That’s not the part I’m arguing with. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So be thankful those of us that do like to use it as a virtual stressball do…… and save all of you real players the hardship of having to do it yourselves. I’m perfectly fine with you enjoying mining. Hell, I’d be fine with you sticking forks into power outlets, if you’re doing so by your own genuine volition and out of your personal enjoyment. It’s a free country. Well, at least I _hope_ that it is wherever you live. But when you start parading your stance as some kind of moral high ground, is when I’m going to call you out. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/113 "2022-02-21T23:43:51Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > moral high ground Excuse me? Where has that happened? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/114 "2022-02-21T23:48:04Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > > It is not _miners_ who do this, but _materials_ fashioned into products > > Where do those materials currently come from. > > Did I miss the update where trit, pyrite etc were no longer required to build ships? I did try to be clear, Etch. That the ores are currently mined by player-characters does not preclude the _possibility_ that the activity could as usefully be performed by NPCs. My point about that activity’s bot-ability was salient. If scripts already exist to automate mining (and they clearly do…), then half the work may already be in place. It is not _you_ I’m talking about Etch, but an activity within a video game. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/115 "2022-02-21T23:51:38Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > That the ores are currently mined by player-characters does not preclude the _possibility_ that the activity could as usefully be performed by NPCs. Sorry man. We have crossed into Lala land here. Everything could theoretically be performed by an NPC. Hell CCP could code ganking fleets if they so desired. How does a “what if” scenario mean that miners don’t contribute to manufacturing. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/116 "2022-02-22T00:02:42Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > CCP could code ganking fleets if they so desired. Absolutely; they could. But that wasn’t my point, and I’m anxious not to allow this to drift into murky and well-wallowed waters.. You stated that miners mining is what enables PvP-ers to wage war. The implication was that player-miners are vital because of the task they perform in the game. I repeat; it is not _player-miners_ who are vital; it is the _activity_ which is vital in the current form of the game. I merely posited that it does not have to be so (EDIT: I mean that the activity does not have to be performed by players - soz). ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/117 "2022-02-22T00:10:22Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > > > CCP could code ganking fleets if they so desired. > > Absolutely; they could. No, they absolutely **can’t.** You can’t program true human entropy into an AI system. Not with contemporary technology, at least. CCP can compensate for miners leaving the game by literally adjusting a dozen variables that control yield amounts from various ores (or simply changing the amount needed to refine while keeping the yields intact). CCP **cannot** emulate true player behavior through NPCs, because AI is linear, and just like with every mission, every anomaly, and every incursion site in the game, players will document how, why, when, and where this AI functions, put it in some online guide, and tell you _exactly_ what kind of ship you need to fly and how to fly it to wholly mitigate the danger. But it’s absolutely impossible to adapt to human behavior in the same manner outside of some general strategies (e.g. “don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose”). This is why player-mining isn’t critical to the game’s health, but player piracy absolutely _is._ ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/118 "2022-02-22T00:15:05Z")
😀 Whoops! Fingers faster than thoughts. Yes; they could _try_. It would be fiendishly difficult and, as you say, unsuccessful. It is waaay past my bedtime here in London, UK. Goodnight all! ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/119 "2022-02-22T00:19:38Z")
How many of these threads/post are going to pop up crying about gankers. Good lord they just seem to freakin multiply every week. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136/120 "2022-02-22T00:27:44Z")
I think some of them are forum alts of the same guy. How many individual people can be this spastic about a game where space ships blow up? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/anti-ganking-needs-to-stop-being-anti-gank/350136.md?page=7)