# Any theories on why so many people have quit over the last 2 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537 "2017-08-09T14:30:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/246 "2017-08-14T22:39:41Z")
> [@Shailagh\_R](#): > > Lady Spank gone I still want my first spanking for free. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/247 "2017-08-14T23:45:37Z")
I apologize in advance. A freighter pilot is all one needs to teach them how to do it right. Preventing it, saving it, how not to get into the situation. I know that it’s radical solution to the problem, but it’s a working one. Your friends could spend a few days attempting ganking YOUR freighter while teaching THEM about how not to lose it, and or how to defend it. The practical approach. Basically, it’s “put your money where your mouth is”, but with a twist. 🙂 I know that it sounds weird to train your own opposition, but apparently it’s the only way to shut them up: You, and your friends, go all in and offer them to teach them. It’s the only way forward. I favour radical solutions. This one is quite disruptive to the status quo. vOv Considering how this whole situation circled around itself for MANYMANY MONTHS, a radical change of course is the only way out. The alternatives are CCP stepping in. There’s a highsec expansion coming in only a few months time and creating momentum for one’s own gameplay properly in advance will help when it hits. And likely even before that. The alternatives are just … bad. Eternal repetition until CCP steps in and ruins something. My solution forces an end, one way or another. They can not refuse to get trained by you guys, otherwise they remove every single inch of ground they had to speak on and you would perpetually be able to point out that _those who complain refuse to learn how to do it right_, shutting every single complainer’s thread up right at the beginning. You force an end to the everlasting repetition. You, as I am sure of, care about the gameplay and I am even more sure you’d LOVE proper opposition, so this is _the_ thing to do. And to make sure I cover an alternative solution: Creating an artificial opposition to spread out one’s control over a wider range of the population has been a tactics since, like, forever. When your current opposition literally sucks, then it’s time to create one’s own. That’s pretty much all that’s holding you guys back. You and HighSec as a whole, but let’s not even go there. It’s just important to consider that there is an HighSec expansion coming in a few months. This fact alone, without anything else, is useful. As long as the ego trippers aren’t in any relevant positions, or are getting kicked early enough, this can not actually fail. 🙂 I’d bet Mooses would like this. Sorry. vOv Have a nice day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chocolate\_Pickle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chocolate_pickle/32/12219_2.png) [@Chocolate\_Pickle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chocolate_Pickle)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/248 "2017-08-15T00:00:29Z")
Please no. I don’t want StarTrek in Eve, that would definitely kill it. ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/249 "2017-08-15T00:09:22Z")
You have an interesting idea and while you would think it most definitely would be a permanent fix, sadly it isn’t. There have been posts after posts… discussion after countless discussion on this and how they can “save” themselves. They choose to neglect the information and continue whining. Also, no one had to sit down and show me how to do any of this. I had heard of people bumping freighters so I looked up a fit and spent 2 weeks doing it back in 2015. I have no interest in teaching the uninitiated nor assisting those that will continue to seek nerfs. If CCP chooses to kill this gameplay then it’s something that is going to happen anyway. CCP has stated that their views on bumping have shifted, so something like a 3-minute timer is inevitable. I choose to spend the time I do have taking advantage of what I enjoy… I made the mistake of stopping my hyperdunking about 3 weeks before the patch when I could have had so much more fun. ---
**Author:** ![CMDR-HerpyDerpy\_Hurishima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cmdr-herpyderpy_hurishima/32/25207_2.png) [@CMDR-HerpyDerpy\_Hurishima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CMDR-HerpyDerpy_Hurishima)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/250 "2017-08-15T04:16:43Z")
Man there’s some big wall-of-texts here. I only just started eve a few months back but i don’t think ill be leaving any time soon 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CMDR-HerpyDerpy\_Hurishima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cmdr-herpyderpy_hurishima/32/25207_2.png) [@CMDR-HerpyDerpy\_Hurishima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CMDR-HerpyDerpy_Hurishima)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/251 "2017-08-15T04:23:02Z")
I didn’t even read this massive wall of text but i feel i should say you lagged my laptop while i scrolled past this massive comment lol. +1 for you ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/252 "2017-08-15T04:57:31Z")
> [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](#): > > I don’t think “casuals” are the breadwinner for CCP. “Pros” and intensive players have been PLEXing for years. Stands to reason casuals are far more likely to sub as they dont have the means/time to PLEX ingame. Pros/Vets provide more complex content into the game, but Im fairly certain its casuals that provide CCPs bread with Subs and PLEX purchases. * * * As to bumping, if a player hasnt done their due diligence, puts all their eggs in one hull, and gets bumped to the result of destruction, Im not surprised they rage-quit. But its not the games fault, its their own. They project their own failure onto the game, as well as their anger/frustration. Its far easier to blame the game than have to accept their own mistakes. Still, I think perma-bumping is a silly mechanic. There should be some systemic limitation so that it cannot continue indefinitely, especially if there is only one bumper. Regardless of the ways to mitigate it, perma-stuns are infamous for causing resentment in games. Its a thumb-rule to avoid them in design. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Ice78](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/desert_ice78/32/423594_2.png) [@Desert\_Ice78](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Desert_Ice78)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/253 "2017-08-15T07:04:15Z")
I can’t speak for other people and as far as I am aware most of the people I flew with are now gone, but for me I want my Golem back. Stupid Drifters… ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/254 "2017-08-15T07:15:37Z")
Try bumping and then ransoming them until they pay you back. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/255 "2017-08-15T08:50:33Z")
You don’t understand. The solution is not the training, but the offering. Discussions are irrelevant. As long as people discuss, instead of drawing the line by offering something that actually draws that line, nothing will change. Discussions, with people who do not want to learn, are a waste of time. Like, look at the main afk cloaky thread. mike voidstar is an attention whore and nothing more than that. he draws people into talking, drags them down and eventually makes them miserable. the only correct course of action is not giving him attention, and making sure he doesn’t get any. that’s what it is about. drawing the line. the only things that prevent people from doing that are the carebears themselves, who dull everyone with their self entitled idea of “i have a voice, it deserves to be heard.” it’s not, but you legitimize their behaviour, so they just keep dragging people down. Hey, if you believe talking about the same things over and over and over again, when people don’t want to talk but only to express their grief… then don’t let anyone stop you from this - by definition! - insanity! vOv PS: in winter, there’s a highsec expansion coming. you can keep doing what the carebears do, or you take matters into your own hands. only continuing ganking and talking on the forums only helps them. a great opportunity is coming and if it’s not taken, they just keep winning because the good guys do nothing. Relevant, long post: [Well this makes EvE look like a terrible game CCP :(](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/well-this-makes-eve-look-like-a-terrible-game-ccp/11827/30?u=yellow_parasol) Ahhh, a sunny holiday today. time to get out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/256 "2017-08-15T08:59:43Z")
100% spot on, couldn’t have said it any better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/257 "2017-08-15T09:48:34Z")
It is totally spot on, the best post in this topic by a long way. ---
**Author:** ![Soldier\_Forrester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/soldier_forrester/32/404576_2.png) [@Soldier\_Forrester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Soldier_Forrester)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/258 "2017-08-15T10:15:04Z")
Such a giant thread and nothing about Intel bots. By CCP officially allowed Log mining intel bots killing all roaming content. ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/259 "2017-08-15T10:37:59Z")
Because they only affect a small portion of players and they are normally happy as long as they kill anything. And sooner or later you do catch someone, using an “intel bot” or not. Why CCP considers those things legal is something I also wondered when I first heard about them. Maybe it’s because the intel still has to be generated manually in the intel channel or maybe because there is nothing they can do against it (except disabling channel logging). For those who don’t know: These “bots” are monitoring and parsing the log files from your intel channels, cutting out the jitter and giving you warnings if hostiles come to close to your location. ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/260 "2017-08-15T11:36:42Z")
You have your opinion and I have mine, but with a pos you didn’t need mining ops in a small or one man corp… I only used it for compression and reprocessing, it just needed onlining once a week for an hour to deal with what I had mined, now the costs are horrendous compared to what we could do. I know changes happen in games, but this is one i’ll always vehemently disagree with… ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/261 "2017-08-15T11:55:32Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Yeah, quoting CCP’s ‘study on ganking’ is a laugh. > > Actually go and look at what they looked at then realise why it’s so irrelevant what they ‘found’ in connection to ganking. Especially since it wasn’t even to do with ganking what they actually looked at, but all PvP experiences. > > The people who actually leave because of ganking are not the under 30 day newbies, it’s the 3-6 month player who gets tear mined for the third or fourth time and decides they don’t feel like being in a game with such toxic victim blaming culture. Sure, blow people up, but the culture around ganking & PvP has changed even since I started EVE, and become far more antagonistic. Come now. We can argue forever about exactly what CCP’s observations on new player behaviour mean, but I don’t believe at all that somehow that the levels “victim blaming” or “antagonist PvP”, even if we accept these as real things, are any different now then in the heyday of Eve. Story time. When I made my first, brief attempt at Eve in 2011 I grew rather bored quickly. I guess I was in the [85%](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dMlGlUa-EOg/VRBTtM8_qnI/AAAAAAAAfuE/VB9sYyQLJbc/s1600/slide2.jpg) where nothing especially interesting happened to me for my first months before I quit out of boredom. During my short time mining alone, and a little longer running missions, I spent my time like may others reading about the game. I read a lot of guides and blogs at the time, and many of them, gleefully described highsec shenanigans like can flipping, wardeccing, mission baiting, ninja salvaging and suicide ganking. In fact, years later, the only ones that stand in my mind were the blogs that described such “victim shaming” tear collecting. Things like the pioneering work of Suddenly Ninjas and TEARS (Tear Extraction and Reclamation Service). Paul Clavet’s very [first blog post in 2009](http://www.mylootyourtears.com/?p=5) is all about collecting tears from Dodixie mission runners, while Aiden Mourn [started Finders & Keepers](https://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/2009/09/18/o/) in the same year. The early [Blog Banter #20](http://www.crazykinux.ca/2010/09/eve-blog-banter-20-care-for-little.html) was all about “griefing” and how prevalent that was at the time in 2010, and whether this was a good thing (TLDR: most bloggers at the time thought it is overall a good thing). Sure, if you are going to tell me that in like 2005 New Eden was only full of honourable fights where both sides of piracy were happy with the outcome, and victims were not “blamed” for being exploded (whatever that means) then I would say I am skeptical, but I’ll accept your description of the time because I wasn’t there. However, that doesn’t mean that miscreants were generating content, often of the type that made highsec carebears cry, for years and years now. In fact can flipping, ninja salvaging/mission baiting, and suicide ganking were all much easier to do and more common from everything we know, back in 2009-2011 era when Eve was just reaching its peak popularity. As the OP indicates, it’s only in the last two-three years that we have entered a decline, long after the things you claim are “toxic” to the game were established, and some like can flipping and ninja salvaging, essentially nerfed from the game and only shadows of their former selves. Eve Online has always been a harsh game, and players have been “mining tears” from each other for most of its long history. I have no doubt that keeps some players away and makes other players quit (while conversely attracting another type of player), but this has always been a constant despite what you are trying to claim, and certainly nothing has changed in the last few years. If anything, players have more safety than ever and are richer than ever so losses hurt less. Feel free to decry the “toxic victim blaming culture” of Eve, but I don’t think there is any evidence that this has impacted on player numbers or activity given it is almost as old as the game itself. There are many other things that have actually changed that would better candidates for decreasing activity in the game. Interestingly, that is the [exact same conclusion CCP arrived at](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504221#post5504221) with all the data they have at their disposal. Further, I think the focus of the upcoming Winter expansion gives us an idea of what CCP thinks has made people quit in recent years, and it isn’t too much “antagonistic PvP”. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/262 "2017-08-15T12:05:50Z")
Personally I think the decline is largely due to the gaming industry as a whole moving towards instant gratification models. Everyone has their own view on this with regards to EvE but it still doesn’t generally fit into that model; the worthwhile things still take time and co-operation. New players have grown up with auto-saves and no risk of any real loss of in game ‘achievements’. In EvE you can still lose everything and need to start again in some situations. I remember my friend showing his kid an old game on an emulator and his son just didn’t get what ‘Game Over’ meant…"What? You mean I have to start again? From the start and everything???’… ---
**Author:** ![Blade\_Darth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blade_darth/32/378598_2.png) [@Blade\_Darth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blade_Darth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/263 "2017-08-15T13:57:04Z")
Yeah but Eve can’t go this route. Every other game is like that so competition is huge. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Hill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nate_hill/32/60038_2.png) [@Nate\_Hill](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nate_Hill)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/264 "2017-08-15T14:03:22Z")
No more new content in high sec. Unfriendly to casual players. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537/265 "2017-08-15T14:30:33Z")
_Plays tiny violin_ Man, that’s a tragic tale you weave. Saddest thing I’ve ever read on an internet spaceship forum. Too bad you’ve proven yourself over and over again to be a pathological liar (read ‘failed metagamer’). Lovely wall of tears though! #Draclivesmatter [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/any-theories-on-why-so-many-people-have-quit-over-the-last-2-years/15537.md?page=14)