# \[ARC\] Humanitarian Provisions for Triglavian Collective **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982 "2018-04-25T00:15:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/61 "2018-04-26T11:14:46Z")
Are we really going to be as petty as to get into semantics? Retrieved/captured, it’s all a play on words to make sure they don’t look like the bad guys in this. I fully support ARC in their endeavors and would, even if I wasn’t a member. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/62 "2018-04-26T11:36:38Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > Are we really going to be as petty as to get into semantics? Do we ever _not_? ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/63 "2018-04-26T11:40:18Z")
I suppose this is true. I should stop being so optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/64 "2018-04-26T11:41:59Z")
but I DO support ARC too, and yes, I know that it could certainly mean that they took the ship by force, I even say so in my “known fact” about the TC, BUT i want also to point that MAYBE concord, for once, really just “found” this ship. It is a possibility that there is no human crew maning this ship, it’s also possible that the crew did not survived during the transition abyssal deadspace/k-space, or that the ship damage rendered it’s life support inoperable, I mean, we don’t know! If there really ARE humans, it’s possible that they diverge so much from us that they were killed by solar radiation ! Words ARE important, and if concord used “retrieve” i’ll give them the benefice of the doubt about any surviving crew and for now, they didn’t presented the TC as an official threat (not like drifters and rogue drones) ---
**Author:** ![Theodarum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theodarum/32/479608_2.png) [@Theodarum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theodarum)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/65 "2018-04-26T11:51:50Z")
Kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/66 "2018-04-26T11:55:54Z")
Before everyone goes rushing off thinking that the Triglavians are the good guys, and the Drifters the bad guys we should consider things more carefully. There seems to be an assumption that the Drifters are our enemy, and therefore the TC are in the ‘Enemy of my enemy’ category. However, we don’t actually know this. What if the Drifters were actually running from the TC all along? They find there way to our space and the first thing that happens is trigger happy capsuleers open up on them. Now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and perhaps we are seen as the ‘softer’ option in a fight. My basic point is we must assume nothing. The Dirters may have been running for their existence, the TC may simply view us the same as the Drifters (capsuleers aren’t human and use repurposed corpses too). We do not have enough information as yet to make any determination even about the Drifters motives, let alone the TC. Do we even know why the Drifters were carrying the corrputed trinary data files? Are they TC artifacts that were carried through to us by the Drifters? If so why was the data they pointed to stored on New Eden data networks? In my opinion we should maintain efforts to open communications with both sides before determining ‘friend’ or ‘foe’. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/67 "2018-04-26T11:56:51Z")
> [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > Words ARE important, and if concord used “retrieve” i’ll give them the benefice of the doubt about any surviving crew and for now, they didn’t presented the TC as an official threat (not like drifters and rogue drones) I pity one who so blindly trusts in a bureaucratic organization. However, believe what you must. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/68 "2018-04-26T12:00:29Z")
I rather just kill them both if that’s the case ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/69 "2018-04-26T12:03:05Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > blindly trusts in a bureaucratic organization o.O seriously? so, for you, according a chance is “blind trust” ? that would explain why the cluster is such a mess. Anyway. I’m going back to my laboratory I have no interest in debating here, I only came to warn against the SoE. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhir/32/379234_2.png) [@Mizhir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/70 "2018-04-26T12:03:21Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > What if the Drifters were actually running from the TC all along? They find there way to our space and the first thing that happens is trigger happy capsuleers open up on them. Now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and perhaps we are seen as the ‘softer’ option in a fight. Well then they could have asked nicely for help rather than assassinating the head of the largest Empire. I don’t know how the norms are where you come from, but I don’t ask for help by blasting someone in the face with a shotgun first. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/71 "2018-04-26T12:05:05Z")
> [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > Anyway. I’m going back to my laboratory I have no interest in debating here, I only came to warn against the SoE. Likely the best place for you. ---
**Author:** ![Maira\_Blackfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maira_blackfire/32/394201_2.png) [@Maira\_Blackfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maira_Blackfire)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/72 "2018-04-26T12:05:06Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > In my opinion we should maintain efforts to open communications with both sides before determining ‘friend’ or ‘foe’. I can’t not see where this will get us in the case of the Drifters, as communications have been made and ignored. The problem at hand is the lack of information we have on the Triglavians, Information CONCORD should have given out to people long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/73 "2018-04-26T12:07:37Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > My basic point is we must assume nothing. I agree with you on that, a thing that many seem to forget… > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Do we even know why the Drifters were carrying the corrputed trinary data files? Are they TC artifacts that were carried through to us by the Drifters? If so why was the data they pointed to stored on New Eden data networks? that is the most concerning in this enigma on my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/74 "2018-04-26T12:14:15Z")
> [@Maira\_Blackfire](#): > > The problem at hand is the lack of information we have on the Triglavians, Information CONCORD should have given out to people long ago. I totally agree, and I’m not convcinved that CONCORD have been entirely open with us about the Drifters either. > [@Mizhir](#): > > I don’t know how the norms are where you come from, but I don’t ask for help by blasting someone in the face with a shotgun first. Why they did that is unknown, but the response depends very much on the reason. Surgically removing the head of a State that is at war with you is reasonable for instance. Given that the Drifters only targeted Amarr, and not the other 3 main Empires would indicate this was a very focused (almost personal) attack. We’ve also seen that the Drifters seem not to care about losing ships, therefore they simply sent enough to get the job done. In short if someone was an existential threat to my family, they certainly would find my shotgun in their face. Here I feel it isnt just CONCORD holding information bacl, but the Amarrian State at the very least too. We capsuleers are just stuck in the middle of it all, and a bunch of borderline psychopaths with weapons grade itchy trigger fingers is never a stable basis to work from. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/75 "2018-04-26T12:16:53Z")
> [@Nomistrav](#): > > … and I may very well start with those who create it… Hah. Hahahaaah. Aaahahahahaaah! ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/76 "2018-04-26T12:36:59Z")
I did some research, and have laid it all out in my own thread explaining why the drifters aren’t a threat to the cluster. The short version is that based on the evidence, I came to the conclusion that the drifters attack on the amarr was retaliation to the amarr committing genocide against the sleepers when they mounted large fleet operations into anoikis and obtained sleeper implants for their templar project. ---
**Author:** ![Maira\_Blackfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maira_blackfire/32/394201_2.png) [@Maira\_Blackfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maira_Blackfire)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/77 "2018-04-26T12:37:38Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Why they did that is unknown, but the response depends very much on the reason. Surgically removing the head of a State that is at war with you is reasonable for instance. I fail to see how the assassination of her Royal Empress Jamyl. is a valued point considering that Amarr was not at war with the Drifters at that point. This only strengthens the reason why we should not trust them, and instead only attack them on sight. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/78 "2018-04-26T12:49:59Z")
> [@Maira\_Blackfire](#): > > Amarr was not at war with the Drifters at that point. Amarr didn’t consider themselves at war with the Drifters, but clearly the Drifters thought differently. Their actions imply a very specific intent. If they were trying to cause trouble, or start a war with New Eden they would have targeted all heads of State, not just the Amarr. > [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > The short version is that based on the evidence, I came to the conclusion that the drifters attack on the amarr was retaliation to the amarr committing genocide against the sleepers when they mounted large fleet operations into anoikis and obtained sleeper implants for their templar project. I’m not saying this is wrong, merely that it is still only a theory without furhter evidence. My feeling is that it was somehow tied to those initial incursions into Anoikis, and/or use of those implants. However, the Drifters also seem to have been scavenging from Jove hardware (the Jove Observatories for instance). Targeting us for doing the same seems a little odd, and not targeting us in the sites they take offence to us pillaging is downright peculiar in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/79 "2018-04-26T13:01:18Z")
It’s one thing to salvage from derelict observatories, but what if the sleepers were alive when the implants were ripped from their heads. That would mean for each templar and his or her countless clones, a sleeper was killed ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982/80 "2018-04-26T13:05:59Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > I’m not saying this is wrong, merely that it is still only a theory without furhter evidence. My feeling is that it was somehow tied to those initial incursions into Anoikis, and/or use of those implants. However, the Drifters also seem to have been scavenging from Jove hardware (the Jove Observatories for instance). Targeting us for doing the same seems a little odd, and not targeting us in the sites they take offence to us pillaging is downright peculiar in that case. the thing is that the SOE were amongst the first to get there and seem to have been able to “talk” with the sleepers, so it is possible that some parties influenced the sleeper and then the drifter into attacking Jamyl. Even if the implant theory is still my favorite, the manipulation of the drifter is still a possibility. For me there is an explanation about the drifter taking offense when near the JO : they are not “pillaging” but “retrieving”. In this case we could be seen as thieves. We know that joves, sleepers and drifter are linked, so it’s not that odd on my opinion. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-humanitarian-provisions-for-triglavian-collective/71982.md?page=5)