# \[ARC\] Joined operation request to the Empires, EDENCOM and loyal capsuleers **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927 "2021-05-07T21:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/81 "2021-05-11T08:28:44Z")
Would you trust someone to enter your home if they insisted on being accompanied by a pack of rabid, unleashed hounds? Would you care for their virtuous motives when the beasts maul your family, uncontrollable? Would their claims that they are not to blame because they were not the ones that commanded the beasts directly have any value? The solution is to select a better escort. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/82 "2021-05-11T08:32:06Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > The solution is to select a better escort. The solutions proposed by the Kybernauts were not on equal footing. Perhaps you should talk to your comrades before flinging accusations. On top of that, they never showed up either. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/83 "2021-05-11T08:35:10Z")
Uh- so? The only value Vale has in this discussion is that it displays your failure to control your own escorts. I am not here to get involved in aimless fingerpointing about what could have went better. I am here to hopefully change what you are _about_ to do so that there is no more pointless bloodshed. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/84 "2021-05-11T08:36:42Z")
Will you all kindly _stop_ collating EM with ARC, and calling us ‘their escort’. If we end up in a system shooting (pro)trigs, then we end up in a system shooting (pro)trigs. If an ally we are in the same situation with asks us to stop hostilities or refrain from starting any against some other party then we will of course _consider_ that request in context of other matters simultaneously going on. If we make a clear commitment beforehand we will stick to it, as anyone who has dealt with us can attest to. But if we have not made one, expecting an EM fleet to follow ARC’s commitments because ARC was in the same system with us 20 minutes ago is ludicrous. Also will you kindly stop collating EM with EDENCOM. We are not EDENCOM or CONCORD loyalists; our co-operation with them begins and ends with the Republic’s. Skarkon and Krirald are considered Tribal lands under occupation and Triglavian forces and their supporters are considered valid targets, but there end our political ambitions in the matter. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/85 "2021-05-11T08:49:51Z")
Remind me Arisa, whose domain was trespassed first? Etiquette and protocol are to be respected for good reason. The rules of hospitality apply here. Humility my serve better than belligerence if an invitation is required. Might it be wise to ask what fleet composition would be acceptable to the collective rather than imposing your will? ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/86 "2021-05-11T08:52:32Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Also will you kindly stop collating EM with EDENCOM. We are not EDENCOM or CONCORD loyalists; I don’t believe I ever did that? I mean, you (Or a significant number of your members, if you prefer) are very much militant supporters of EDENCOM, or at least were during the invasions, I am not sure how even _you_ could try to deny that, it’s a very well recorded fact. But it ultimately doesn’t really matter. You are entering as a hostile military force, doesn’t matter if you are Republic insurgents, Amarrian crusaders or independents residing in some barren wormhole, you will be dealt with the same. If you wanted a less violent outcome, you should have tried a more diplomatic option. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > our co-operation with them begins and ends with the Republic’s Really now? I recall EM taking direct action across all New Eden, even in the Empire’s sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/87 "2021-05-11T08:57:42Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > militant supporters of EDENCOM, or at least were during the invasions Yes, we provided a fighting force for the EDENCOM defense and we might do it again in a similar situation - depending on the Republic’s stance on the co-operation and what makes strategic sense in order to defend Tribal space. I am not trying to deny that, nor do I have any interest in doing so. Still, we are not EDENCOM. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > I recall EM taking direct action across all New Eden, even in the Empire’s sovereignty. You must have misunderstood what I said. Taking action against a valid target anywhere that valid target is is very well within our normal MO. What I am trying to say is that EM is not directly loyal to EDENCOM or CONCORD, but that our loyalty to them is only through that of the Republic’s. A big decisive factor in our support to EDENCOM in the invasions were the repeated calls for co-operation by our government. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/88 "2021-05-11T09:01:07Z")
Well, no argument there. To my knowledge there’s no known capsuleers serving under EDENCOM. You are all not part of them any more than we are part of the Collective. ---
**Author:** ![Sahara\_Jackal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sahara_jackal/32/296697_2.png) [@Sahara\_Jackal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sahara_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/89 "2021-05-11T09:35:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Yes, _why_, when the Collective first arrived in Skarkon, didn’t ARC immediately marshal the _six thousand freighters_ it would have taken to evacuate all of one planet, so they could be destroyed by Trigs and Kybers in space?? What _ever_ could have prevented them from conjuring up enough pilots to qualify as the seventh-largest capsuleer organization in the cluster? I mean, they only would have needed _twelve times as many pilots as Stribog Clade has_, all in freighters, to manage it. > > What a ridiculous question. Was I supposed to ignore the explicit words of Commander DutchGunner that _“ARC wishes to ask all four Empires, EDENCOM and all loyal capsuleers and capsuleer organisations to take part in joint operations into Pochven”_? I acknowledge that my point could have been articulated better, so let me state it more plainly. The Empires, EDENCOM, and their loyal capsuleers _could_ have undertaken the efforts required to relocate civilian narodnya at the time the threat was first known. That they apparently failed to do so on Skarkon and other worlds is clearly a reflection of how much they _truly_ valued those lives. It’s a little late for concern, now. And yet that is the explanation we kybernauts are now asked to accept; that after all this time, stranded narodnya lives are now too precious for you all to ignore! Oh no no, this could not _possibly_ be a military invasion force dressed up in the guise of a humanitarian mission! Ridiculous, indeed. > [@Arrendis](#): > > I promise, we’ve long-since deployed a far more destructive weapon into your home. Even now, it is slowly reducing your minds to tapioca. And Sahara’s posting definitely shows it’s working. Hmmm… that _would_ explain why Maldavius had the Wirashoda fortizar crew install a quarantine zone and additional soundproofing around the Imperium’s diplomatic mission. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/90 "2021-05-11T09:43:59Z")
> [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > quarantine zone and additional soundproofing Based on the quality of dialogue so far, wholly inadequate. ---
**Author:** ![Sahara\_Jackal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sahara_jackal/32/296697_2.png) [@Sahara\_Jackal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sahara_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/91 "2021-05-11T09:49:32Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Based on the quality of dialogue so far, wholly inadequate. To be fair, it is doubtful that modern science has invented the kind of soundproofing technology necessary to contain this _particular_ threat. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/92 "2021-05-11T09:56:47Z")
> [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > The Empires, EDENCOM, and their loyal capsuleers _could_ have undertaken the efforts required to relocate civilian narodnya at the time the threat was first known. That they apparently failed to do so on Skarkon Failed? > [@ELECTUS MATARI SUPPORT TO THE SKARKON EVACUATION](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/electus-matari-support-to-the-skarkon-evacuation/267889): > > Electus Matari, a capsuleer organization loyal to the Minmatar Republic, will be conducting several evac & rescue operations in Skarkon at least during this weekend, and after that as much as we can, in accordance with instructions by Sanmatar Shakor and EDENCOM. As we more or less expected, our base for full operations met heavy local pirate hostility upon entry. The freeport structure is up and operational now, though. even if it is unarmed and in low power.It will with certainty be there unt… > [@ELECTUS MATARI SUPPORT TO THE SKARKON EVACUATION](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/electus-matari-support-to-the-skarkon-evacuation/267889/30): > > AAR FOR SKARKON EVACUATION We began to form in Gelfiven at 19:00 NEST where we formed a fleet of roughly 60 pilots with a focus on armored battlecruisers and the appropriate logistics cruisers. Between ourselves and our allies, Republic loyal capsuleers showed up in force. There was also a good number of international capsuleers working through the EDENCOM Defense Initiative and the Arataka Research Consortium who came out to support our operation. We completed our pre-flight preparations and d… > [Minmatar Republic Parliament Meeting on Allocation Agreement to Support Evacuation Housing in Set Aside Tribal and Clan Lands](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/massive-stargate-disruptions-across-new-eden-as-authorities-struggle-with-spacetime-instability/) > [Evacuation Flight from Skarkon Destroyed by Triglavian Werpost Batteries; Casualties Unknown](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/breaking-further-stargate-shutdowns-ordered-across-new-eden-as-spacetime-instabilities-increase/) > [The Skarkon Tribal Resistance Army continues to defy the Triglavian invaders on Skarkon II](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/galactic-hour-news-roundup-start-of-yoiul-festival-season-yc122-123-edition/) > [Skarkon II Conflict “Source of Concern” to EDENCOM as Analysis Indicates Inflow of Combatants Comparable to Outflow of Refugees](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/galactic-hour-news-roundup-no-peace-in-new-eden-for-yoiul-festival-edition/) > [@\[SoERR\] Reports from On the Way Home evacuation base](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/soerr-reports-from-on-the-way-home-evacuation-base/271633): > > The purpose of this document The purpose of this document is to give an overview to the capsuleer community about what things look like in one of the many volunteer refugee bases in the cluster. International communications and official news seem to have broken down, and in the confusion it is difficult to gain information. While what I have is only a very tiny piece of the puzzle, it seems that tiny pieces is now all we have, so I will attempt to share mine. Before I begin, I will apologize… I still have no idea why you are so fixated on Skarkon or call it a failure. This is an ARC thread and despite their support too the Skarkon evacuations have never been an ARC op as such. It’s also basically one of the showcases where evacuation was very successful - not 100% so, because it’s a ■■■■■■■ planet under siege, you don’t just pack up everyone and go - but very successful anyway, to the point that the _parliament_ has had to take a stance on where to put all those people. Pro-tip: if you want to make a case against evacuation efforts success, pick literally _any_ other example but Skarkon. ---
**Author:** ![Sahara\_Jackal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sahara_jackal/32/296697_2.png) [@Sahara\_Jackal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sahara_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/93 "2021-05-11T10:02:15Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Pro-tip: if you want to make a case against evacuation efforts success, pick literally _any_ other example but Skarkon. Very well. I concede your point, at least with respect to Skarkon. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/94 "2021-05-11T10:33:31Z")
Back to the topic at hand, since a lot os posts seem to be about old frenemies sitting around afire in the woods remembering their past deeds. - ARC is showing up with industrial transportation to remove people that probably will not be missed by the Clades - Stribog Clade may be ok with said industrial ships removing said people - Pew pew people want to pew pew from both sides, before, after and _during_ said operation, something that brings trouble to said operation - Stribog Clade does not control Triglavian response, ARC does not control Capusleer response - A rescue operation happening during pew pew is dangerous for the non capsuleers involved - For the rescue operation to work, pew pew people would have to agree to at least not shoot the industrial ships, would be more efficient if they could repair them if shot, if nedded shoot/disavow people shooting at them during the act - Since humans have the hability to use their tapioca minds (a compliment) to virtualize scenarios and project possible futures, pew pew people involved can use reasoning to present a scenario where they refrain from shooting each other, or at least, shooting the industrial ships - Since we are not Sansha, we can’t acess what is happening in each others heads, so we require people declaring their projected future intentions to react to them And that brings us to the current situation: _How many of the parties in this topic are willing to declare an intention of not shooting and/or repairing said industrial ships removing people that will not be missed by the Triglavians, in a way that allows the rescue operation to ocurr with minimum conflict between groups that do not trust each other, **for the duration of said operation?** _ and _How many of the parties involved in this topic are **NOT** willing to do so?_ If the groups would be so kind to put their intentions on their table, the operation can be better planend and have more chance of success, so please, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/95 "2021-05-11T11:13:14Z")
I second this sentiment. The popular pass time of pointing out one another’s faults has no end and lacks productivity. I suspect Truse Slave puppetry behind EoM activity, although I have no evidence to support this. The political crossfire on display here obscures our common enemy! ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/96 "2021-05-11T11:37:56Z")
I’ve seen this movie. What happens is almost always the same. For simplicity, I will label the parties in my example “A” and “K”. A being a party wishing to evacuate civilians and K being a party in nominal control of the space. 1. K insists on there being “no warships” in A’s fleet, otherwise K will scream “invasion!!!” and shoot at A. 2. K’s definition of “warship” is extremely vague and transport ships with anything other than cargo holds fitted will make K scream “perfidy!!!” and shoot at A. 3. K will insist on cargoscanning the transport ships for “contraband” which will also be vaguely defined. Medical supplies for example will make K scream “bioweapons!!!” and shoot at A. 4. If A does manage to pass these checks, then a “mysterious third party” will suddenly appear to shoot at A. The deception fools no one. 5. Any breach of the points 1-3 above will make K scream about “dishonour!!!”. All of this nonsense is intended to humiliate A and for K to try and show that “this space is ours, we make the rules”. It’s tedious in its predictability. Thus the only course of action is for A to arrive in force and eliminate any K elements. This will of course make K scream about “treachery of A” on the IGS, but well, they were going to do that anyway. And no one would be convinced by it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/97 "2021-05-11T11:46:24Z")
That is what happened last time. Hence the opportunity for people to actually declare their intentions beforehand, regarding _specifically the transport ships providing evacuation efforts_. Combat ships are for combat, they will fight eventually. It is a question of “How long am i willing to hold my trigger happy urges” ? Will not shoot and am willing to die Will shoot if shot upon Will shoot as soon as the evacuation ends Will shoot as soon as i get there Will shoot everything and everyone, including the civilians, their babies, and their stupid baby toys. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/98 "2021-05-11T11:53:17Z")
Let us get to the meet of the matter. If Clade capsualeers offers security against their own militants would ARC suffer their protection? ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/99 "2021-05-11T11:58:27Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > If Clade capsualeers offers security against their own militants would ARC suffer their protection? While interesting, that might be too much to ask for. The announced mission objective is the transports getting in, picking certain people, and getting out in one piece. There are many ways to get this done that even involve people shooting each other, as long as they don’t shoot the transport. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927/100 "2021-05-11T12:08:37Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > Let us get to the meet of the matter. If Clade capsualeers offers security against their own militants would ARC suffer their protection? When this was discussed before, it did not end favorably. They requested to take over piloting the transport ships and wouldn’t allow any combat ships not piloted by them in system. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-joined-operation-request-to-the-empires-edencom-and-loyal-capsuleers/309927.md?page=6)