# \[ARC\] Large and Heavily Damaged Drifter Fleet Encountered in Hive Complex **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796 "2018-02-17T07:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/282 "2018-02-26T23:10:06Z")
🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/283 "2018-02-26T23:11:36Z")
Don’t leave yet, I want an explanation for your hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/284 "2018-02-26T23:11:40Z")
Very true. > [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > 🍿 So, Makoto, maybe _you_ can clear this up: when flying in an ARC fleet [EDIT: Actually, let me clean this up a little.] 1. Are contractors expected to adhere to any particular standards of behavior, or would (for example) ganking and attacking other capsuleers on a whim be tolerated? 2. Is the fleet considered to be representing ARC’s interests? a. If so, is the fleet considered to be representative of ARC to others in local, or is it just an unruly mob who happen to be shooting the right things? 3. Is the FC considered to be ARC’s representative and agent to the fleet? 4. Are fleet members considered to be the FC’s responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/285 "2018-02-26T23:17:10Z")
> [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > You are completely disregarding concord and the empires in saying this. Disregarding their will. Concord has vastly more information than you and they did nothing. If these drifters are a threat concord would say to go kill them and shoot st them personally but that’s not what’s happening You have _way_ too much confidence in CONCORD. Like, try a bit of free thinking, man ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/286 "2018-02-26T23:22:38Z")
I don’t trust them at all, but honestly, if something had the ability to take down everything, specifically them, woupd they just sit on their hands? No, they will send out agents, they will kill anything and everything if it threatened them personally, which is the kind of threat that ARC says the drifters are. Look at what they did to sansha kuvekei back in the day. They got all of the empires together and wiped them out ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/287 "2018-02-26T23:25:11Z")
> [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > I don’t trust them at all, but honestly, if something had the ability to take down everything, specifically them, woupd they just sit on their hands? Well, that’s actually a really bad metric, considering we know that when the Drifters _did_ attack CONCORD right in their home freaking station, CONCORD’s response was… cave, give them what they blatantly wanted (the Drifter corpse) and insist they weren’t getting involved. I mean, really, I’d more take my cue from the _Navies_. CONCORD’s got about as many balls as a convention of neutered pets. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/288 "2018-02-26T23:25:48Z")
> [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > if something had the ability to take down everything, specifically them, woupd they just sit on their hands? No, they will send out agents, they will kill anything and everything if it threatened them personally Watch, as I destroy your entire argument with a single word! Elders. ---
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/289 "2018-02-26T23:25:51Z")
Woodrow Ormand has, also, accused us of Drifter genocide, which is an entertaining notion, so consider whose comments you’re basing this off of. That said, to the questions. 1. Pilots on ARC fleets are generally expected to follow fleet commander instructions. Failure to follow instructions can warrant response as appropriate. We honestly haven’t run into major issues, so there’s no formal policy here. 2. ‘Representing’ is a loaded term. As you well know, we tend to be a fairly open community, and accept volunteers from all corners. We do not filter volunteers based on political orthodoxy, because generally ARC seeks to be apolitical and multinational in nature. a. As above, so below. Policing speech in local is not normally a priority for fleet commanders, excepting when particularly egregious. If we receive complaints, we’ll address it as appropriate. 3. Generally, yes. 4. Generally, yes. In this instance, Woodrow Ormand is a particularly outspoken party who seems to believe that not awaiting direct CONCORD instruction to engage Drifters could be considered an usurpation of CONCORD authority, and that ARC is engaged in _genocide._ So, really, argue what you’d like, and I’ll be over here with popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![Evi\_Polevhia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/evi_polevhia/32/501296_2.png) [@Evi\_Polevhia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Evi_Polevhia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/290 "2018-02-26T23:27:33Z")
> They got all of the empires together and wiped them out ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/3/93d0a97d9bccdeb3319ebf996dfc54a945a6d42a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/291 "2018-02-26T23:28:59Z")
Exactly, and why don’t you call for wiping out the entire minmatar people wherever you see them I wonder? They did the exact same thing to concord as the drifters did to the amarr ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/292 "2018-02-26T23:29:04Z")
> [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > ‘Representing’ is a loaded term. It’s really not. It’s a pretty simple question: When your fleet is active in a system, do you want people to look upon your actions as something ARC receives credit for, and thus held _responsible_ for, or just something you happen to be along for the ride over? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/293 "2018-02-26T23:31:00Z")
Yeah. [Definitely gotta give you that one](http://evemaps.dotlan.net/incursions). Anyone claiming CONCORD got the Empires together to wipe out the Sansha… uhm… ---
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/294 "2018-02-26T23:32:10Z")
🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/295 "2018-02-26T23:33:49Z")
What I meant was that they thought they did. They burned everything down and for all intents and purposes, they killed them all. That was their intent. They didn’t stop, they simply overlooked a few hiding places ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/296 "2018-02-26T23:35:43Z")
> [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > Exactly, and why don’t you call for wiping out the entire minmatar people wherever you see them I wonder? They did the exact same thing to concord as the drifters did to the amarr Is this real life? I _am_ Minmatar you blithering idiot. As for the “exact same thing”, it really wasn’t. The Elders _communicated_ their intentions well in advance. They even gave a nice little flyby to prove they could do it. They asked CONCORD very nicely to stand down while they rescued slaves from the Amarr. In return, CONCORD, the clusters biggest paper slaver hound, sat on their police-y arses and did _■■■■ all_. So when the Elders showed up and did exactly what they warned they would, who’s fault is it if CONCORD were surprised and useless? Despite their incompetence, the were back up and running 24 hours later with seemingly no ill effects. In comparison, the Drifters showed up, no communication, and assassinated a head of state. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/297 "2018-02-26T23:41:41Z")
I made the analogy because I knew it would get your attention. Because they communicated first do you think it makes you that much different? They were going to do it regardless of what concord thought. Same as the drifters, the only difference was they told concord. The drifters had a singular goal, and they accomplished it without any more bloodshed than was necessary. Would it have made it any better if the drifters said, hey, we are going to kill the empress regardless of what you think, and then they do it. Would it be much different? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/298 "2018-02-26T23:47:57Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > In comparison, the Drifters showed up, no communication, and assassinated a head of state. Yup. The Elders undertook actions designed to be as much agitprop and PR as they were a military campaign. The Drifters didn’t care about the PR and just hit their objective. I mean, I know we’ve been throwing around the ‘assassination’ word a lot, but… assassinations are generally held to _not_ be legitimate military targets. As the ultimate head of the Imperial Navy, and more importantly, _while piloting a titan_, I don’t really think you can say Jamyl I wasn’t a legitimate military target. As a _capsuleer_, even her pod can be seen as one. So was it really an _assassination_, or just a precision strike at enemy command and control capabilities? ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/299 "2018-02-26T23:48:17Z")
> [@Woodrow\_Ormand](#): > > Would it have made it any better if the drifters said, hey, we are going to kill the empress regardless of what you think, and then they do it. Would it be much different? Yes! It shows they’re willing to communicate, it shows they are at least vaguely human, it shows that they can potentially be negotiated with, it potentially offers insight into _why_ they did it, it gives time to prepare a military response, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Even if the end result was identical, there is no scenario in which it wouldn’t have been an improvement on what did happen. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/300 "2018-02-26T23:48:50Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > It shows they’re willing to communicate We know they’re willing to communicate when it serves their purposes. They _have_. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796/301 "2018-02-26T23:49:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So was it really an assassination, or just a precision strike at enemy command and control capabilities? With no official conflict declared? That’s an assassination. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-large-and-heavily-damaged-drifter-fleet-encountered-in-hive-complex/57796.md?page=16)