# \[ARC\] Semiosis **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507 "2019-03-20T20:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/181 "2019-04-06T17:51:07Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, only after the _discovery_ of Anoikis during the 2E. That doesn’t mean your _conclusions_ are necessarily wrong, but don’t go assuming more surety than we actually have. This is true, you’re much more cautious than I am here obviously and I will admit we can’t hammer this down this as a fact. But if it were the case that they left during the Second Empire and after the discovery of Anoikis but before its colonisation, then we have to explain the various references the Triglavian messages have made to the archive data on the “Jovian expansionist polity”. I think these are directly referencing that colonisation effort. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/182 "2019-04-06T17:51:20Z")
> [@Nyphur](#): > > What actual disruption of spacetime has there been that they could be referring to? The Seyllin Event and Caroline’s Star themselves massively disrupted spacetime. There were no known instances of unstable wormhole formation as we see today before Seyllin, and their instance rate has not been shown to be declining in any capacity in the years since - that’d definitely qualify as a disruption to spacetime, which was quite a lot more stable before. ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/183 "2019-04-06T17:52:27Z")
> [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > Additionally, the Drifters are making no effort to control them - they’re disassembling them for parts. One reason to disassemble is to reassemble elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/184 "2019-04-06T17:53:45Z")
I think there is a fundamental difference in the way the slave implants work and the Drifter interface unit. That should preclude Kuvakei taking them over. Nation, as far as I am aware, appear to have got their technology from plundering Jovian and probably Talocan sites too. I’m suspicious that Rogue Drones, who are known to inhabit the Devil’s Dig site also gained some of their insights into spatial manipulation from Talocan sites as well. Possibly even the Jove empires did. The beings we refer to as Talocan, whoever they may have been, did have an incredible knowledge of that kind of technology. It could well be that the Nation’s wormhole generation tech is flexible enough to allow passage into the Abyss, or at least the Domain of Buyan. From the billboard video I am not entirely convinced the Sansha ships are actually in Abyssal Deadspace. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/185 "2019-04-06T17:54:09Z")
It’s pretty apparent that they use the elements in their own tech - they’re present in every Drifter vessel’s construction, something we’ve readily observed over the 4 years since they came into view. ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/186 "2019-04-06T17:54:52Z")
> [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > The Seyllin Event and Caroline’s Star themselves massively disrupted spacetime. There were no known instances of unstable wormhole formation as we see today before Seyllin, and their instance rate has not been shown to be declining in any capacity in the years since - that’d definitely qualify as a disruption to spacetime, which was quite a lot more stable before. That’s my point though, the only effects of those events have been to directly disrupt the wormhole network. Has there been any other spacetime disruption other than to the wormhole network? Because if there hasn’t, it makes it more likely that the Triglavians are referring specifically to the wormholes. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/187 "2019-04-06T17:56:04Z")
The Nexus gates. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/188 "2019-04-06T17:56:27Z")
The wormhole network itself is reliant on spacetime - that itself has been disrupted, leading to the formation of points that form temporary wormholes across the entirety of the cluster and Anoikis, where before they would have only formed where those using the network wished them to. ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/189 "2019-04-06T17:59:13Z")
Seems like this one could go either way. It’s entirely possible they’re referring to general spacetime disruption that they have the technology to detect even if the only visible effects to us are the wormhole issues, but equally they could be referring to the wormhole network. This means we can’t be sure that they have Talocan wormhole tech themselves, seems we will not get clarity on this with the current data. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/190 "2019-04-06T17:59:20Z")
It’s even possible that it was once a completely stable network. Controlled via the Nexus gates, Epicenters and such. So much redundant technology in wormhole space. It could have been similar to the Triglavian loop-conduit network, where it looks like they can set it to route to anywhere in the network. The energy that created the shattered systems let it all work randomly. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/191 "2019-04-06T18:02:33Z")
I agree with you there - the Talocan Static Gates are obviously intricately linked with the network (or at least they were - they certainly don’t function anymore). I’m certain there’s a connection between the Talocan network and the Nexus, at the very least - and if we have to draw from that, I’d absolutely bet the Nexus structures could have been how the Triglavians (and Drifters, now) entered the Abyss, given their monumental scale. Of course, this is all speculation 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/192 "2019-04-06T18:04:47Z")
> [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > they’re present in every Drifter vessel’s construction, I suppose it is true that for an advanced civilization to have no other use for technology than to put it into a space ship for blowing up is consistent with our broader experience. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/193 "2019-04-06T18:07:59Z")
The point is, the Observatories are nothing so grand as you suggested above - they were broad-range covert observation outposts, which have records of k-space communications and doings stretching back a very long time. The Antikythera Element is obviously a device of Jove creation, and the Drifters seem to lack the resources or ability to create sufficient numbers for themselves - whatever their true mechanic is, we’ll hopefully learn in coming times. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/194 "2019-04-06T18:11:31Z")
There are 5 Nexus sites, 25 small ship shattered wormholes and a further 75 standard shattered. So each Nexus controls 5 small ship, and each small ship controls 3 standard. Thera being some kind of hub. Given that the shattered seem to spawn more connections and anomalies simply using those holes would give a viable, stable traversable network. The inhabitants could jump off the network into any additional holes and farm resources. The wormholes as they stand follow fairly simple rules, it is the interactions that make it seem complicated. I did some work with Katia Sae, before she was famous, and have several month’s worth of data. The mathematics is complicated, the same math used for predicting patterns on a variegated plant for instance; you can’t actually predict how clusters will form precisely but the patterns that form are expected. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/195 "2019-04-06T18:12:09Z")
> Advancing-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «forms of contact should be followed» (indecipherable) prayer shall invoke cladistic proving to achieve glorification. Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow with (indecipherable) «continue to next evolution of sampling» (indecipherable) in the proving of noema within the flow of Vyraj. (AFN5) Triglavians don’t seem to see any kind of threat in our visiting the Abyss, on the contrary they see it as us participating in “proving” whatever it means. We can even get “glorified”. I mean they gave us their ship plans essentially. They seem interested in us taking their side. Drifters don’t seem to be interested in us at all. They don’t aggress unless provoked. Knowing there is a war, and not knowing the motivations of the sides at war, should we take sides? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/196 "2019-04-06T18:16:21Z")
Therein lies the question - the Triglavians are obviously open to us in ways the Drifters aren’t, and they want to fight back against the invading Drifters. However, we know nothing of _why_ they are fighting, why the Drifters are attacking, or why the Triglavians were so immediately sure they need to be dealt with. I’d definitely hesitate to take sides until we understand more - and perhaps the Triglavian capsuleer policy may necessitate a change in that of the Drifters towards us, in coming times. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/197 "2019-04-06T18:18:06Z")
The Drifters are doing what they do normally, look for resources. Presumably Antikythera elements are a limited resource, but imagine what Drifters could do with Iso-10 for example, or augmenting their ships with mutaplasmids. ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/198 "2019-04-06T18:22:08Z")
Spying on “us” is evidence that we are of at least some significance, and I list “how to deal with nascent civilizations” as a potential flash point between Jovian factions. However, the Antikythera Element is more than salvage for battleship rigs. I am suggesting it is a “crystal orb,” that it provides insights into How The Universe Works that are not otherwise readily apparent, that learning How The Universe Works may actually be dangerous, and consequently, not all Jovian factions are willing to use the orb. If that’s a bit grandiose, so be it. I am grandiose. ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/199 "2019-04-06T18:23:10Z")
> [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > they were broad-range covert observation outposts, which have records of k-space communications and doings stretching back a very long time. Yeah, the Drifters are definitely only tearing the outposts apart for materials. My theory on the purpose of the outposts is that the modern Jove had given up on preserving their own race in favour of guiding our races as their legacy. The observation posts and the Jove contact with our empires over their history indicate that they definitely wanted to guide our development. Perhaps the information and technology stored in the outposts and the caches of tech and materials (including Isogen-5 I believe?) hidden throughout New Eden were intended to be our inheritance when we reached a sufficient level of development. And now the Drifters have robbed us of them. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/200 "2019-04-06T18:25:16Z")
Or as somebody put it, a New Eden Garden of Eden kit. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507.md?page=11)