# \[ARC\] Semiosis **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507 "2019-03-20T20:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/224 "2019-04-07T16:22:04Z")
> [@Annisir\_Kaugan](#): > > Ignore the mythic mumbo-jumbo, although it suggests that they, and the Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle, normally residein the Domain of Buyan, which may be somewhere outside the Abyss and a place we have yet to encounter. Abyssal Deadspace is clearly a chaotic region that the Triglavian Collective is exploring and harvesting resources from, but they seem to be pockets embedded in perfectly stable star systems with planets. We enter the region by entangling our warp drives with filaments, forming a temporary bubble around our ship that will collapse in around 20 minutes unless it’s safely un-entangled by a Triglavian Origin Conduit. It’s not unreasonable to assume the collective is using a similar procedure and that the origin conduits lead them back to their own side of the fence. That may make Abyssal Deadspace just a conduit between two regions of space: ours, and theirs. They’ve managed to send one ship all the way through to us so far (the one CONCORD quarantined) but it was highly damaged in the process. Nevertheless, that means it should be technologically feasible to cross the Abyss and enter their space if we can figure out how. > [@Annisir\_Kaugan](#): > > It says it all really, they are the spokespeople, a Detached Executive Troika. In my opinion, from what we have seen in other datastreams, a Troika is composed of one Narodnya, one Navka and a Koschoi. A Detached Executive is a group that has stepped outside the the normal scheme of things. Has the term Narodnya ever been used in reference to the Triglavian collective itself? I’ve only seen it used in reference to us, it definitely refers to humans and I’d be surprised if it were anything to do with their command heirarchy. Troika could just refer to the fleet as they have the whole “tactical troika” designation for different ship sizes, and detached may simply mean deployed. Detached Executive Troika then could mean the fleet deployed to abyssal deadspace? ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/225 "2019-04-07T16:54:05Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > I do have an erotica-romance book coming up called _“Enter my blackhole”_ that is about the forbidden (and complicated) relationship between a rogue mute unshackled Artemis Tyranos and a Triglavian way outside the struggle with too many voices in its head and their journey after a thrilling escape from BOMBORD installations and the evil agent _Omeg Crust_ that did unspeakable things with their bodies in search of a lot more than knowledge about an impending doom on the space-time horizon. Oh. My. God. I must have it! ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/226 "2019-04-07T17:52:42Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > > Detached Executive Troika seems to refer to that which we know as Zorya Triglav - the streams detail some of their undertakings and operations, and seem to make reference to their increased works in contact with us Capsuleers. > > But I can’t accept that part of your assessment because from earlier Datastreams, billboard message and new Datastreams it clearly follows that Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle is Zorya Triglav and it is the highest ranking entity of Triglavian society. I _think_ that Siegfried is correct. The “Detached Executive” is a group tasked by the Zorya to solve a specific problem. Building on Annisir’s point about idioms, we might say that the Zorya “main” has “detached” a “thread” to handle assessing the loyalties of civilizations that were very primitive when the “War In Heaven” started, but who may now contribute. The “thread” will perform its task and return its conclusions to the “main.” ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/227 "2019-04-07T18:48:20Z")
Yes, a direct quote from CONOCRD, stating that Narodnya, Navka and Koschoi are 3 divisions of Triglavian Society. Also :- _"Cladeships of the 3 tactical troika classification in communion militant of Zembog Subclade of Veles Clade encountered vessels under guidance of hivelinked foreign narodnya at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) while processing in sub-30 exclave of conduit loop construct-477. Invocation of the ancient-time accepted noema of extirpation of hivelinked narodnya proceeded but material realization was unacceptable. Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable)._ – Partial translation of Triglavian Trinary Datastream HFN2" The word sort of translates to ‘folk’, and they always use the phrase foreign Narodnya in referring to non-Triglavians. Interestingly HFN2 seems to point at a Troika being composed of 3 Triglavians, one of each type. That fits with the video as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gosakumori\_Noh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gosakumori_noh/32/308623_2.png) [@Gosakumori\_Noh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gosakumori_Noh)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/228 "2019-04-07T19:39:54Z")
> [@Annisir\_Kaugan](#): > > _corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable)._ > > – Partial translation of Triglavian Trinary Datastream HFN2" > > The word sort of translates to ‘folk’, and they always use the phrase foreign Narodnya in referring to non-Triglavians. Interestingly HFN2 seems to point at a Troika being composed of 3 Triglavians, one of each type. One historical Amarrian “troika” I recall consisted of an Eponymous, Basileus, and Polemarch. The functions cannot be precisely mapped to modern equivalents. However, the “koschoi” role in the text quoted does align with Basileus - judicial/spiritual/advisor. Similarly, Navka fits with Eponymous - embodiment of the state, decider. That would leave the Narodnya in Polemarch position. Most classically, that was a military role. However, later constructs do provide us with the concept of Tribune, which included both military and civilian branches. The civilian Tribune was “Tribune Of the People” - or “Folk.” ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/229 "2019-04-07T19:47:18Z")
Interesting. So Narodnya may refer to a civilian or military branch (hence why they refer to us as that), Navka would appear to be an executive branch as they give consent for actions to be taken, and Koschoi is some form of advisory branch. The combination of all three is a Troika, and there may be are various Troika for different aspects of their society (e.g. the tactical troika). ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/230 "2019-04-07T21:44:57Z")
They call us Narodnya but also generic augmented humans. Perhaps they are interchangeable terms. But perhaps only some augmented humans qualify as Narodnya. It is a dangerous affliction if such an advanced people can only address it through immolation. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/231 "2019-04-07T21:49:56Z")
It feels very much certain that “Narodnya” is their term for base human beings - we are augmented Narodnya, Sansha are hivelinked Narodnya, etc. Koschoi seem to be some higher position, perhaps yet another form of life within the Triglavian racial umbrella - just as the Navka are certainly not supposed to be simple flesh & blood humans. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/232 "2019-04-07T22:02:29Z")
Zorya Triglav calls themself _“an emanation of the convocation of Triglav outside the struggle”_, and the _”detached executive troika”_ mentioned in the series 5 datastreams absolutely matches the type of actions they seem to be taking. I’m completely certain that the DET is the official positional rank of Zorya within the Collective’s classifications. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/233 "2019-04-07T22:19:12Z")
Jin-Mei society is structured as Sang Do leadership caste, Saan Go professional caste, and Jing Ko working caste. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/234 "2019-04-07T22:20:14Z")
Or a name they are using for the duration of the crisis. Something outside the usual clade nomenclature. ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/235 "2019-04-07T23:18:24Z")
> [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > It feels very much certain that “Narodnya” is their term for base human beings - we are augmented Narodnya, Sansha are hivelinked Narodnya, etc. I’m no longer certain of this, because they refer to us as “_human_ augmented narodnya.” The term may refer not to our humanness but to some other property. Hell, it could be their word for “ship” and it’d all still fit. ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/236 "2019-04-07T23:30:25Z")
is it possible that their term Narodnya would refer to immortals as opposed to base humans. I specify immortals because the old dusters would have fallen under that category without being capsuleers, and the “human augmented” part of it, to differentiate us from say the sleepers, who are also immortal but arguably may not meet the trigs definition of human anymore, or the jove, who we got the capsule technology from. or the sansha who they seem to classify as something other than human as well. Immortal may not be the exact meaning, since its not TECHNICALLY accurate for us either, but it may be something along the lines of “those who persist through death” by whatever means that is achieved, ours happens to be through augmentation by humans. or it could be much more simple and mean something like “trans-human” or augmented human, with the preface of hivelinked etc, still being used to distinguish between the various forms. since the triglavians themselves seem to no longer be “base” humans, and use the word, without clarification to refer to themselves. Now “human-augmented, augmented human” might seem rather clunky, but no more-so than a lot of the other designations they seem to give. especially if their recent encounters with us is forcing them to stretch a set of words and linguistics to include categories that they did not previously have terms for. (since they do seem to have specific words for the sleepers, and seemingly also have a much longer history of interacting with them.) ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/237 "2019-04-07T23:51:41Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > Now “human-augmented, augmented human” might seem rather clunky, but no more-so than a lot of the other designations they seem to give. That wouldn’t really be consistent with the collective’s use of language so far. They tend to construct understandable sentences with syntax and grammar familiar to us, but for many words they use more archaic synonyms. While we may grapple with some of the phrases they use as if they are metaphor or symbolic, I’m convinced they are far more straight-forward and plain-spoken but with what we would consider word substitutions. > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > Immortal may not be the exact meaning, since its not TECHNICALLY accurate for us either, but it may be something along the lines of “those who persist through death” by whatever means that is achieved, ours happens to be through augmentation by humans. It could be their word for Infomorph then. They don’t recognise Sansha zombies as human any more, but they would still recognise them as an infomorph society. The only thing is, we wouldn’t be able to confirm this as we have no idea if the Drifters or the Triglavians themselves are infomorph societies. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/238 "2019-04-08T00:15:10Z")
This again feels like a lot of speculation for which we have no actual basis one way or another. Narodnya referring to ‘people’ or ‘humans’ is supported by the presentation of it, but without any kind of indication for a different term for what we call ‘baseliners’, we’ve no reason to begin introducing additional limiters on the meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Nyphur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyphur/32/460013_2.png) [@Nyphur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyphur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/239 "2019-04-08T00:41:35Z")
The fact that they’ve already demonstrated that their word for “human” is just “human” would seem to make it unlikely that Narodnya refers simply to humans. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/240 "2019-04-08T01:07:58Z")
Why? Humans People _Homo Sapiens_ Folks Persons And on and on. We have multiple words for ‘humans’. Why do you imagine they don’t? Again: we don’t have indications of a separate word that explicitly excludes us, so we don’t have a need for a word that explicitly _includes_ us. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/241 "2019-04-08T01:55:06Z")
About a quarter in, the billboard message includes the statement “Human augmented Narodnya must prove the direction of their Flow.” It would be awkward for narodnya to mean human. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/242 "2019-04-08T02:16:49Z")
Yes, it has deeper connotations. The Triglavians are very much orientated towards social groups; their use of the word ‘polity’, and semiotics is a form of social psychology. So Narodnya might be a kind of open term for social groups. They could be referring to the people they have encountered in the Abyss, but also, and at the same time, corporations and alliances. Which then harks back to Narodnya as used about themselves referring to their common folk. Which then leads to Nakva and Koshoi being distinct social divisions and not regarded as normal, for want of a better word. The Navka appear to be either wholly infomorphic, or perhaps some form of AI. The Koschoi are therefore something else, perhaps heavily augmented, either cybernetically, or genetically, their equivalent of capsuleers maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Saboteur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dread_saboteur/32/270709_2.png) [@Dread\_Saboteur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dread_Saboteur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507/243 "2019-04-08T02:25:56Z")
What if it just means spaceship pilots. Also could flow of Viraj basicly mean ‘‘direction of evolution’’ since enemies like Drifters and Sansha basicly affect the natural state of human evolution Triglavians seem to be big on the concept of free mind and free will. Also the term Navka is used in relation to rogue drones in abyss Navka Overminds could it just be Sentient AI or infomorphs ? So triglavians have pilots ,sentient AIs/infomorphs and Koschoi as part of their society [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arc-semiosis/147507.md?page=13)