# Are Wardecs always going to be broken? Is a fix even possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516 "2025-01-08T02:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/431 "2025-01-26T06:06:36Z")
> [@Chewytowel\_Haklar](#): > > No wardecs in HS space? In before this gets abused in ways I can’t imagine yet. What is the point of high-sec wardecs? Those that specialize in them are prepared for a fight. The majority of small corporations that throw up a structure - not so much. So if it’s just to keep the small crabs in their barrels then it’s succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/432 "2025-01-26T13:01:13Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Those that specialize in them are prepared for a fight. It would be more accurate to say they’re _not_ prepared for a fight… they’re prepared for a turkey-shoot against undefended targets. Wrecking Machine recruiting posts specifically say they’re for casuals and newbies, etc. Gloria has already confirmed they even infiltrate their targets beforehand - mostly to make _sure_ they’re unlikely to put up a strong defense. Blackflag whelps ships whenever actual fighters show up. When they lost a war recently, they lost a half-dozen 3+ billion ISK ships before fleeing, because they were slow to realize actual defenders had shown up (The Initiative allied in) and they were under attack. For a WAR HQ they just post the cheapest low-budget, mostly empty Astrahus they can… because they know they can’t defend it if a real combat force shows up. As happened in the same war - after whelping ships in one bash, when Solyaris and The Initiative showed up to kill the War HQ, Blackflag didn’t even try to defend. This makes WDs even _more_ pointless and boring because if defenders bother to smash the War HQ and ‘win’ the war, there’s virtually no reward. Basically just the 700k or whatever quantum core and a few crap structure modules. Blackflag also whelped an entire fleet when Slow Children at Play baited them at Jita, essentially because the members have no real PvP experience: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/d/d/3dd836c6a61bd77ccdb4c358db5bcf14bbcaa54e.jpeg "SL0W: A Black Eye For Black Flag") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Eql838xLs) For myself, I don’t think the issue with Wardecs is that they need to “go away”. CCP probably feels the problems with them are now mostly ‘fixed’ because any corp can opt out, and any corp that opts in can at least afford a structure (ie. not complete newbies). So the player-base destruction side of wardecs has been partially offset. The issue with WDs is that they lead to boring, poor quality gameplay and no real ‘fights’, mostly to enrich a half-dozen corps at the expense of hundreds of others. CCP has stated one of the goals with WDs is to encourage “ **entertaining conflicts** ” and this is absolutely missing from the current design. One of the reasons I set up my proposal the way it is (attackers must kill for points, but defenders have options to take other actions) was specifically _because_ wardec corps, in general, are so bad at actual PvP/hunting/killing anything but immobile undefended structures. So defenders have quite a good chance at succeeding in their war goals, and they also have something to win by doing so. And wars have a good chance of snowballing into large conflicts as allies join in and add their War Bonds to the reward pile. Currently, wars are just boring structure bashes against weak targets. As Glenduil says, it’s affordable to just walk away from them, and the standard defender doctrine still appears to be “just don’t engage, log out if you have to”. WDs appear to still be somewhat necessary in order to remove/change structures, POCOs etc… but they should at least have more potential to become _interesting_. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/433 "2025-01-26T13:04:28Z")
Sure, fight, turkey shoot, seal clubbing - it’s all the same thing. Their war targets are hopelessly outclassed and unprepared. I’m not even sure the structure core dump makes any difference, because even with those these wars can’t be very profitable. As much as I’d like to think the wars in high-sec are merely extensions of conflicts elsewhere (null-sec, low-sec), they don’t seem to serve much purpose beyond keeping that barrel of crabs in-check. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/434 "2025-01-26T13:58:00Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It would be more accurate to say they’re _not_ prepared for a fight… they’re prepared for a turkey-shoot against undefended targets. Again the same old nonsense. EVE is an environment where choices have consequences. Should there not be a _consequence_ for a person placing a poorly defenced structure in space ? Why is it up to CCP to come in and rescue them from their own _choices_ ? Nowhere in any of your rambling rants about wardecs do you ever once deal with the issue of personal responsibility. As MB ThePhotographer so rightly says above, if you don’t want to be seal clubbed…then don’t be a seal. But heck…then what would you have to launch 50 paragraph rambling rants about 🤣 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Wrecking Machine recruiting posts specifically say they’re for casuals and newbies, etc. Gloria has already confirmed they even infiltrate their targets beforehand - mostly to make _sure_ they’re unlikely to put up a strong defense. Sheesh, what a load of twisted nonsense. _Most_ fleets involve noobs. That is how they become not noobs. Huh. And in fact the irony is that the noobs in WM are the ones flying the much easier destroyed ‘squishies’…so in at the deep end. You failed to mention the bit where I lost a Phantasm and a Vedmak on the same day…and it was someone else’s Vedmak I had borrowed. I was _seal clubbed_…boo hoo ! I mean…I might have become so _distraught_ that I left the game and you’d have had to write a 50 paragraph rambling rant about it. 😉 As for ‘infiltrating’ to check defenses…yet more nonsense. One can scan a station to see exactly what defences it has, without ever joining the corp. The actual reason I spied on corps ( on behalf of AO ) as a noob was to see where they were mining. And on one occasion I actually fought alongside an ‘infiltrated’ corp _against_ Blackflag. Darn it…once again I was seal clubbed. Just an expendable noob…boo hoo. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Blackflag whelps ships whenever actual fighters show up. When they lost a war recently, they lost a half-dozen 3+ billion ISK ships before fleeing, because they were slow to realize actual defenders had shown up (The Initiative allied in) and they were under attack You mean wardeccers actually _lose_ wars ? The sheer irony of you making precisely my point that people should not set up structures in the first place if they haven’t a hope in hell of defending them, as wardeccercs _can_ be defeated otherwise. Then again…if you’d ever actually _been_ in a war rather than rambling away from the safety of your docked up intellectual ivory tower and pondering ‘data’ you’d actually have some clue as to the reality. But it is so typical of this forum that those who rant loudest about wardecs and PvP have never been within 100 miles of either ! ---
**Author:** ![Babooshkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/babooshkie/32/447867_2.png) [@Babooshkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Babooshkie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/435 "2025-01-26T14:33:18Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > inadequately defended structure So, you’re anti-small corporations? That excludes a lot of players. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/436 "2025-01-26T14:58:39Z")
If you can’t imagine those ways, how do you know that those ways will happen? ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/437 "2025-01-26T15:07:23Z")
Gloria, you still refuse to see the truth. You can launch everything you want at structures. You can blow them up and spout nonsense all day about how they should have been defended. But what you can’t do is make defending them worth it because by the time you finish destroying that one, i would have jumped to a new location of space, sold a small amount of PLEX, and set up a brand new structure. All without losing any of my expensive ships. 🙃 I will not even sacrifice a single drone defending a disposable structure. In Eve, avoiding a pointless fight is a form of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/438 "2025-01-26T15:53:11Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > Gloria, you still refuse to see the truth. Well, no…I think you are saying exactly the same thing as me but just don’t grasp it. > [@Glenduil](#): > > You can launch everything you want at structures. You can blow them up and spout nonsense all day about how they should have been defended. But that applies to _any_ object in space. I am basically saying that a structure _is_ basically a ship in space and should be treated no differently. The exact same principle of ‘don’t undock what you can’t afford to lose’ applies. And if a person does not follow that…should CCP alter the entire game to cope with this lack of personal responsibility ? > [@Glenduil](#): > > But what you can’t do is make defending them worth it because by the time you finish destroying that one, i would have jumped to a new location of space, sold a small amount of PLEX, and set up a brand new structure. I simply don’t care if defending it is ‘worth it’ for the defender. It’s a killmail and possibly some loot…and I move on as well. I’m in the game to kill stuff. Thanks for the easy kill. But the defender _could_ have avoid that entirely. We are all ultimately responsible for our losses. > [@Glenduil](#): > > In Eve, avoiding a pointless fight is a form of winning. See…you _do_ get it. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/439 "2025-01-26T15:57:58Z")
Yep. I do get it. I’ll soon be avoiding fights while I’m mining ore gathered from one of my Athanors. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/440 "2025-01-26T15:58:06Z")
> [@Babooshkie](#): > > So, you’re anti-small corporations? I _am_ a small corporation. I’d want at least 30 good PvP-ers in the corp before I even thought about putting up a structure, and even that would only be so I could declare war on people. I’d expect to probably lose the structure…but I’d have good fun in the process ! ---
**Author:** ![Babooshkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/babooshkie/32/447867_2.png) [@Babooshkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Babooshkie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/441 "2025-01-26T16:56:59Z")
30 isn’t small. Some people want to have a small corp. AND have some features. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/442 "2025-01-26T17:20:16Z")
It’s pretty hard to build corporations these days… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/443 "2025-01-26T18:09:30Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > It’s pretty hard to build corporations these days I know. I’ve been in the same one since forever. I made it back in the day when the forum blowhards were always saying “If you were in a corp, we’d dec you”. I’m still waiting… ![corp](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/6/d/96d419003201dc5e9d43257c1208240fc8f34679.png) ![corp1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/6/3/d63284cc94d30aeb7a0de5abcdabea27a7a454b1.png) I couldn’t be arsed to make one these days. What’s the point. vOv Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/444 "2025-01-26T18:29:08Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Blackflag [has] no real PvP experience: …do you have any PvP experience? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Babooshkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/babooshkie/32/447867_2.png) [@Babooshkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Babooshkie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/445 "2025-01-26T18:29:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > What’s the point. Taxes. And I like having divisions to store/organize stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/446 "2025-01-26T18:30:15Z")
> [@Babooshkie](#): > > Some people want to have a small corp. AND have some features. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/c/2/3c2b63382e5148e3d5a0689f78f29ac12963c2bb.jpeg "You Can't Always Get What You Want") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dfYcQ_r_x8) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/447 "2025-01-26T18:39:08Z")
> [@Babooshkie](#): > > Taxes. Quick question. Is @Codename_Razorback you? Or just some guy you got to make the corp for you? Or are you just the last man standing? Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Babooshkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/babooshkie/32/447867_2.png) [@Babooshkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Babooshkie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/448 "2025-01-26T18:54:49Z")
In-game email 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/449 "2025-01-27T00:44:23Z")
Last week I had received an evemail from AgentTS of the Elite Miners Association saying that he comes to us with some good and bad news. He is asking for some assistance of defending the president of Stacmon inside the Tatara situation is now critical. So yeah we Frostpacker suit up and undock to anchor a powerhouse of protection to assist. Fast forward until today being just one day out from Delivering superior service of protecting the Tatara and saving the president’s quarters from total destruction. We notice just now another pirate of Stacmon placed a new war deck onto the stack of other pirates. ![IMG_7603](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/d/7/5d724f329cdb1a867bd907219c730d8a2066a0a3.jpeg) The pirates are running scared of the future timer after witnessing the demise that comes when Frostpacker decides to take a serious step towards undocking. The issue we currently see and the issue we have with the current wardec is that as per the intelligence document photo supplied shows that the new pirate will be freely be able to attack the Tatara while being noflagged or attacked by Frostpacker as there is no option to offer the new support for the newly added pirate. ![IMG_7604](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/d/5/bd579f452c4038e733e513917f8dfcda59ebbaa2.jpeg) Only been offered to support the bottom two /Suggestion If a current request is active on defending then any new Wardecs added after that time should not require the ceo to log in to accept or make the necessary changes to request another offer for help with the same war As time becomes an issue and all we get when trying to iffor some support is this; ![IMG_7605](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/2/1/c21d0c730c0cde1508da26342170aa335604ab4e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Babooshkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/babooshkie/32/447867_2.png) [@Babooshkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Babooshkie)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/450 "2025-01-27T03:48:15Z")
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