# \[Arek'Jaalan\] Hilen Tukoss's Final Message, and the Truths of the Upwell Consortium **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269 "2019-11-04T18:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/21 "2019-11-05T03:22:17Z")
Warp drives do tend to need your navigational systems to be able to lock onto nearby gravitational effects w/your ship’s gravity capacitors in order to determine capacitor usage. While it’s theoretically possible to leave the limited number of binary star systems where the stargate network functions, it’d require some serious effort _and_ time to make it work. And I don’t just mean time as in ‘it would take time to build it’, I mean… well, consider the transit time of an interceptor. To go from 1dq1 to 8wa, a distance of 0.51 LY… would take 17 days. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/22 "2019-11-05T04:17:11Z")
For example distances between Venal HD-JVQ - Perrigen Falls MTO2-2 and Tenal SF-XJS - Cobalt Edge HB-5L3 gates seems to be roughly equal 20-25 LY in both cases. Leopard with High Grade Ascendacy Implant set warps at 32.4 AU/s. Dramiel with Warp speed rigs, accelerators, and the same implant set warps at 25 AU/s. They would cover 20 LY distance in 10.8 and 14 hours (!) respectively. If only we could initiate unaimed warp. > 1 LY = 63 241 AU > 20 LY = 1 264 820 AU > > 1264820 AU / 32.4 AU/s = 39 038 s = 10.8 h > 1264820 AU / 25 AU/s = 50 509 s = 14 h ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/23 "2019-11-05T06:17:55Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Warp drives do tend to need your navigational systems to be able to lock onto nearby gravitational effects w/your ship’s gravity capacitors in order to determine capacitor usage. While it’s theoretically possible to leave the limited number of binary star systems where the stargate network functions, it’d require some serious effort _and_ time to make it work. Yes, but it’s still a possibility, and speaking frankly I’d be extremely surprised to learn the Mittani _hadn’t_ tasked part of Goonswarm’s employees to start charting nearby systems with jump-capable ships and cyno beacons. > [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > They would cover 20 LY distance in 10.8 and 14 hours (!) respectively. If only we could initiate unaimed warp. You _can_ initiate un-aimed warp, it’s just that our CONCORD-controlled navigation systems prevent it without a lot of modification. Hell, that’s probably why major capsuleer alliances haven’t been creating their own ship designs like the various pirate groups and independent factions across New Eden have done. Goonswarm and TEST may not have Kosakami on their payrolls, but they’ve got more than enough personnel to form research bureaus of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/24 "2019-11-05T06:46:40Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I’d be extremely surprised to learn the Mittani _hadn’t_ tasked part of Goonswarm’s employees to start charting nearby systems with jump-capable ships and cyno beacons. He hasn’t. The parts of the organization that would be involved in that—Design, Recon, Pathfinders—have never received that tasking. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/25 "2019-11-05T09:32:47Z")
Ahh, memories. I was suspicious at the time, and tried to caution people that things may not be what they seem. But people had other ideas. And so now we have Drifters and Triglavians and who knows what else coming. Ah well, let’s see what comes of this. I wonder who CONCORD will threaten this time, and with what, and for what reason. ---
**Author:** ![Lunetta\_Hakaari](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lunetta_hakaari/32/441047_2.png) [@Lunetta\_Hakaari](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lunetta_Hakaari)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/26 "2019-11-05T12:00:14Z")
- > **Doctor Hilen Tukoss** , arriving in Eram in control of a Sleeper or Drifter vessel and carrying vital information, was intercepted by agents of Eifyr & Co. a short time after broadcasting his final transmission outside the Eifyr station in late February YC117,\* So it’s theoretically possible for capsuleers to directly interface with Sleeper/Drifter technology? if so then this is a point in favour of the position CONCORD is actively suppresing technological advances that could jeopardize their position of power. It’s entirely possible CONCORD is also capable of creating articifial wormholes in the same way as the Sansha, or atleast some idea of how to. Who knows what else their trying to hide. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/27 "2019-11-05T16:16:01Z")
CONCORD is taking massive losses from the Triglavians. If they had massively advanced Drifter or Sleeper technology, they would have to be even more incompetent that I believe them to be to not either use it themselves or release it to capsuleers - especially when they already have access to SoCT and Jocian tech that they have used in such ways. Also, you ignore how corrupt CONCORD is in all its structures. Someone would have made money on the black market from it already if they were hiding such technology. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/28 "2019-11-05T18:45:52Z")
> [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](#): > > CONCORD is taking massive losses from the Triglavians. Have they been fighting the Triglavian invasion fleets and I just haven’t seen them? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/29 "2019-11-05T19:15:59Z")
> [@Lunetta\_Hakaari](#): > > So it’s theoretically possible for capsuleers to directly interface with Sleeper/Drifter technology? if so then this is a point in favour of the position CONCORD is actively suppresing technological advances that could jeopardize their position of power. It’s entirely possible CONCORD is also capable of creating articifial wormholes in the same way as the Sansha, or atleast some idea of how to. Who knows what else their trying to hide. No, I wouldn’t say that; Hilen Tukoss, in _infomorph_ form, was taken by the Drifters. In escaping, I’d say the only two real possibilities are that he either took control of a ship as an infomorph, or he in fact managed to enter and steal a _Drifter_ body. The autopsy performed a ways back revealed that Drifters still contain their Sleeper implants, which are very similar in form to the implants of New Eden’s clone soldiers. In terms of Capsuleer-Sleeper unmodified compatibility, I’d wager a solid “no” - though who knows what else the Precursor skill packages provided by the Triglavian Collective may reveal? As for CONCORD, their power seems to come far more from the hold they appear to have over any Capsuleers registered through their own training program than from some omnipotent tech. They appear to possess some sort of backdoor that allows them to interfere with our own capsules’ input and/or output in some way - zeroing capacitor, shutting down all systems, and causing a Capsuleer criminal’s ship to self-destruct. Their rapid-response system, allowing them to immediately deploy police drones across secure space, is the only major thing I wager might have been a gift of the Jove Directorate - so yes, wormholes, in some limited form (as they seem to lack the knowledge necessary to load a wormhole generator onto an independent ship, as Nation has accomplished with their Incursion supercarriers). ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/30 "2019-11-05T19:51:06Z")
> [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](#): > > CONCORD is taking massive losses from the Triglavians. Funny, when we watched a Trig group in Siseide attack a single CONCORD frigate, CONCORD had no trouble just… _ignoring_ them… ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/31 "2019-11-05T21:12:00Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Have they been fighting the Triglavian invasion fleets and I just haven’t seen them? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Funny, when we watched a Trig group in Siseide attack a single CONCORD frigate, CONCORD had no trouble just… _ignoring_ them… To quote [this article](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/ded-and-aegis-leadership-propose-new-eden-defense-fund-at-inner-circle-war-council/): > Key elements of the plan also focus on recruitment drives to make up losses in personnel, a program of enhanced training and augmentation of troops, and funding for personal survival equipment – including highly expensive backup personality recording systems… > > …Just prior to the defense fund presentation, the meeting had reviewed a digest of losses incurred by CONCORD and core empire forces while fighting Triglavian invasion forces, as well as repelling Drifter, Sansha’s Nation and Blood Raider attacks, over the last month. Also, regarding [CONCORD’s responsibilities](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/galactic-hour-news-roundup-world-ark-aftermath-edition/): > While the core empires and their respective regional governments are directly responsible for defense of systems and their celestial bodies, AEGIS is supplying vital logistical support, detachments of specialist troops and equipment, and early-warning and intelligence of Triglavian movements. There were other reports of the Triglavians targeting and raiding CONCORD stations but I can’t find that article right now. As much as I dislike them, I must be fair to them by respecting their losses. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/32 "2019-11-05T21:40:34Z")
> [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](#): > > losses incurred by CONCORD and core empire forces while fighting Triglavian invasion forces, as well as repelling Drifter, Sansha’s Nation and Blood Raider attacks, over the last month. Yes, and let’s keep in mind that the 'and’s in that mean that you can’t specifically parse it to mean CONCORD on their own have taken losses against the Triglavians specifically. Rather, [CONCORD and the core empires] have taken losses from [Triglavian forces, Drifters, Sansha, and Blood Raider attacks]. Basically, given what we’ve actually _observed_ of CONCORD’s defensive technology in comparison to the Triglavians, this reads to me like CONCORD basically saying ‘yes yes, we’re all in this together, your losses are our losses’… and, from the cost-level, they’re right: money the empires spend on their own recovery is money not spent on CONCORD. And yes, there have been reports of Trigs boarding and assaulting stations, including capturing personnel , probably for interrogation, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to fleet losses. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/33 "2019-11-05T23:02:02Z")
Losses don’t have to be fleet losses. I would hate to be a civilian living in Delve if the only losses Goons take into account are fleet losses… ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/34 "2019-11-07T18:13:48Z")
Even in terms of boarded/raided facilities and captured personnel, it seems pretty apparent that the Triglavians are doing so mostly for information gathering purposes than for the purpose of inflicting loss. Contrasting that with the Drifters’ actions during the blackout, where they raided and emptied out countless material gathering facilities across nullsec - including (reportedly) every single human being onboard each one, you get a very different image when thinking of the Trigs. CONCORD themselves captured a Collective Vedmak, including its crew, and we still have no idea what became of them - as it seems, information gathering is being performed on every facet of this weird conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/35 "2019-11-23T08:21:22Z")
to be exact regarding the crew of the captured vedmak, we “don’t know” what happened to it… meaning that we don’t even KNOW if there WAS a crew. I’m still in favor for a full infomorph society who can “incarnate” themselves in generic bodies if the need arise. Many minds for one body. the exact opposite of the drifters who has one mind for many bodies. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269/36 "2020-02-21T08:21:22Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arekjaalan-hilen-tukosss-final-message-and-the-truths-of-the-upwell-consortium/199269.md?page=1)