# Arrests of Mikramurka Defense Officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436 "2019-07-15T20:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/201 "2019-07-20T14:46:02Z")
Well, so have they. Yet I’d still like to help if they’d just swallow their pride. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/202 "2019-07-20T14:47:00Z")
Or we could stop inventing even more complicated rationalizations for why nobody saw a fleet in space moving across at least three star systems. After all, nanocoating or not, the gates would have _had_ to register them, or no transit. If there’s evidence that says there was a fleet, great, let’s see it. Until then, the simplest explanation is: there _was_ no fleet. They did it a different way that doesn’t require a super-special new trick. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/203 "2019-07-20T14:50:47Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Or we could stop inventing even more complicated rationalizations for why nobody saw a fleet in space moving across at least three star systems. After all, nanocoating or not, the gates would have _had_ to register them, or no transit. You do know rogue smuggler gates are a thing, right? I mean, not taking anyone’s side here, we don’t know enough about what happened, but pirate organizations, and others, have been known to build their own clandestine stargates to get around using the official ones. ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/204 "2019-07-20T14:50:54Z")
If there was a fleet, they probably traveled through the same means they always have, illegal stargates and/or wormholes. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/205 "2019-07-20T14:56:56Z")
I do know rogue smuggler gates are a thing. I also know there’s been no reports that any have been found in connection to this. I mean, which one requires more assumptions and suspension of disbelief? Every single failsafe and detection system in the _heart_ of the Republic failed so completely that the Republic Fleet, RSS, and system-wide news services all couldn’t even get satellite imaging of the fleet once the bombardment started? They couldn’t even register ‘there they go running away after’? Or they smuggled the stuff in, assembled it on-site, and attacked at their leisure? I mean, _every single one_? And they didn’t even notice those systems were down afterwards? Exactly the right people in exactly the right places at exactly the right time to not just pull it off, but to escape detection once the attack started? Doesn’t that start to require Jade’s ‘Ooooooh there’s a huge network of Blooders all through the Republic OooOooooOOOOoh be afraaaaaid’? Or, you know, exactly the same thing gun-runners do every single day in every single section of New Eden. Which one’s more believable? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/206 "2019-07-20T15:03:33Z")
I’m not saying, ‘this is the most likely possibility’. Just _a_ possibility. I mean, just a few weeks ago, a massive blooder dreadnought fleet was encountered in Tanoo, the capital system of the Ammatar Mandate. There are a _lot_ of questions about what is going on. In both of our nations. We just _don’t know_ the facts. Yes, it _sounds_ unlikely, but so does a _lot_ about what is going on these past few months. So at this point, I’m keeping an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/207 "2019-07-20T15:06:58Z")
And that’s fine, but let’s remember: this is all in response to the demand ‘Where is the massive investigation of the Fleet???’ And the answer is: until there’s actual evidence to mandate one, why should the Fleet get investigated at all? Again: _if_ evidence turns up, then pursue it. If it doesn’t, let’s not go building up with massive ‘zomg, the blooders have totally new super-stealth tech!!!’ conspiracies. The dreads in Tanoo almost certainly got there by someone _letting_ them come in. But once they showed up, _they died_. They registered on overviews. People could see them. Little bit different, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/208 "2019-07-20T15:11:58Z")
Sometimes it is just better to let Arrendis be wrong I suppose. Yes, someone in the Minmatar government let them in. Please proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/209 "2019-07-20T15:22:06Z")
Yes, how unreasonable I am, suggesting we follow the evidence rather than leap to wild theories about super-secret stealth Blooders. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/210 "2019-07-20T15:34:48Z")
So, Arrendis? I’m not trying to take a side (this whole thing is kinda none of my business unless invited), but, the last stealth coating (Eee, Cold Iron, my favorite!) was originally effective for I think like thirty minutes before the sensors got adjusted so ships coated that way could be picked up? (A bad thirty minutes, but, not days or weeks or months.) It happened so fast I think it must have been a software patch. Maybe it wasn’t a super-secret stealth technology. Maybe it was a well-known old one that isn’t usually stealthy anymore … … and a computer virus? To roll that recalibration back? It’d be a sneaky approach. If they did it deftly, it wouldn’t be obvious there was anything wrong with the sensors until someone showed up with a Cold Iron SKIN, and they could minimize the risk there by timing it carefully. It seems like a good way for them to make old investments keep paying off with minimal additional cost. (And at a glance your theory as it stands doesn’t seem to account for the kids who got taken.) ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/211 "2019-07-20T15:35:12Z")
Just checking, you know what thread you are posting this in, right? I mean I am suggesting actual evidence for _any_ theories put forward in this thread is zero. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/212 "2019-07-20T16:08:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That doesn’t look like ‘known’. That looks like ‘ _unconfirmed_ ’ reports. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > I’ve had my Chief die and my unmarked little brothers and sisters taken by the Blood Raiders after the Thukker tribe sold the one source of information on them to the Amarr Empire without RJD lifting a finger. 🤔 > [@Karmilla\_Strife](#): > > A few years ago the Blood Raiders experimented with “Cold Iron” nanocoatings which were effective against military early warning systems, until DED released updated scanning algorithms. Perhaps they have improved upon those experiments and/or DED is so overwhelmed by other invasions that they have overlooked something? The first bit of useful information in this thread, and it comes from an Amarr loyalist. At what point, my sisters, are you going to drop your fear and pride and just _work toward a common goal for the benefit of everyone_? * * * Edit because I missed this gem: > [@Arrendis](#): > > The dreads in Tanoo almost certainly got there by someone _letting_ them come in. But once they showed up, _they died_ . They registered on overviews. People could see them. The dreads in Tanoo arrived at a time in the day where no one was around to pay much mind. The reason they died was because by a stroke of luck, I undocked from the Fortizar while the blooders were shooting at it, and after I alerted LUMEN, they were able to raise a fleet and defend the station. I can’t stress enough how accidental the timing was on that. The blooders could easily have taken out the station without any opposition otherwise. Capsuleer-wise, Pator is a very quiet system. Do we really know that those blooders would not have shown up on overview if the right pilot had spotted them while they were shooting at and invading Matar? ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/213 "2019-07-20T16:45:44Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > The dreads in Tanoo arrived at a time in the day where no one was around to pay much mind. The reason they died was because by a stroke of luck, I undocked from the Fortizar while the blooders were shooting at it, and after I alerted LUMEN, they were able to raise a fleet and defend the station. I can’t stress enough how accidental the timing was on that. The blooders could easily have taken out the station without any opposition otherwise. It’s also worthy to note that they came back a day and a half later and reinforced the Fortizar in the dead of night at an even more obscure time. Of course they were too cowardly to show up when it came out of reinforcement, but that’s beside the point. Point is, they hit it when we weren’t there to see it. We know they were there because they hit it. So similarly, no reason to really believe somebody couldn’t have seen them had they been around when the blooders hit Matar. We know they were there cause they hit it. ---
**Author:** ![Literia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/literia/32/491152_2.png) [@Literia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Literia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/214 "2019-07-23T18:51:19Z")
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Literia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/literia/32/491152_2.png) [@Literia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Literia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/215 "2019-07-23T18:55:26Z")
Perhaps what the Republic needs a huge reform of their leadership and structure for all the tribes. Far too long have the Tribe members stood quietly while the few privileged few screw everything up for everyone. Just because they are in a leadership role of their Tribe. Perhaps if the general members of the Tribes stand up and make their voices heard, because that will be a day of reckoning for the leadership of the Republic. Most of the leadership in the Republic are corrupt, taking money wherever they can from their less fortunate tribes members. They can be bought and sold. I say its time for a change and time for new leadership to emerge out of the ashes of a regional wide reckoning. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/216 "2019-07-23T19:29:12Z")
> [@Literia](#): > > Perhaps what the Republic needs a huge reform of their leadership and structure for all the tribes. Chief Tarn Stjörnauga is a shite logistics anchor. That may not seem relevant, but it is—he has no experience with it, no training for it, and is not possessed of the tools or skillset to do the job. I would not trust his judgment as a logistics anchor. I would not feel sure of his decisions. He _is_, however, an experienced, intelligent leader for my Clan. His judgment in that role has been sound, time and again. His experience and training give him a wealth of knowledge, connections, and insight into the political arena within the Sebiestor Tribe. As with all of my Clan, when I feel I have useful advice to give my Chief, I give it. When I am asked for my thoughts, I give them. And then I trust his judgment in those matters. His _purpose_ within the Clan is to be the individual whose judgment can be trusted on those matters. Chief Tarn Stjörnauga, so far as he has told any of the Clan, trusts the judgment of Chief Acassa Midular. He offers her advice when he is asked or when he feels it appropriate that he do so. If such time came that he did not trust Chief Midular’s judgment, _I trust him_ to deal with that situation in the manner that best serves the interest of the Clan, and the Tribe. > [@Literia](#): > > Perhaps if the general members of the Tribes stand up and make their voices heard My voice has been heard quite clearly by my Clan Chief, and my Tribal Chief. If you do not approve of the jobs yours do, by all means, express yourself. But so far as I can tell, the Sebiestor Tribe does not feel we need a new structure _forced_ on us by the membership of the Brutor Tribe any more than we need one forced on us by their Chief, or the Sanmatar. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/217 "2019-07-23T20:29:13Z")
> [@Literia](#): > > Perhaps what the Republic needs a huge reform of their leadership and structure for all the tribes. I’ve been saying this for years. Those few who managed to leverage themselves into positions of power during the Rebellion have also been able to cling to and expand that power ever since, aside from the ones who were cut down in Shakor’s rise to Sanmatar (mostly Sebiestor leaders). Those of us who were too small and broken to assert ourselves are now on the outside looking in, and that’s not going to change with such power-hungry leadership in place. That creates inequities among the clans and, effectively, among the Tribes. Just because the Sebiestor Tribe is the largest doesn’t mean I feel like I have a voice in it. Even when Midular was in power, my clan’s concerns were ignored. At the very least, there needs to be a shakeup. What I’d like to see would be power divided equitably among the tribes, rather than invested in one person. Then maybe we could have a more diverse set of voices, and serve the needs of _all_ of our people. Not just the ones who have the ears of their Tribal leaders. > [@Arrendis](#): > > If such time came that he did not trust Chief Midular’s judgment, _I trust him_ to deal with that situation in the manner that best serves the interest of the Clan, and the Tribe. And I trust my Clan Chief, without reservations. The problem is that Acassa Midular doesn’t give two fucks about what anyone with the clan name “Ramijozana” has to say. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/218 "2019-07-23T20:30:33Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > The problem is that Acassa Midular doesn’t give two fucks about what anyone with the clan name “Ramijozana” has to say. Then your Clan Chief should raise that issue among the Clans. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/219 "2019-07-23T20:31:08Z")
What do you think we’ve been doing for the past 50 years? Sitting on our hands? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/220 "2019-07-23T20:34:49Z")
No idea, but if you think you’ve been raising the issue of ‘Acassa Midular doesn’t give two fucks about what anyone with the clan name “Ramijozana” has to say’ for fifty years, you’re daft. Acassa Midular hasn’t been the Sebiestor Chief for nearly that long. And if your chiefs have been raising the issue of ‘The Tribal Chief only listens to a few select, influential Clans’ for fifty years, they haven’t been doing a terribly good job of finding _allies_ among the other Chiefs of small Clans, have they? Convince a hundred small Clans’ Chieftains to support your grievance, convince even a _dozen_, and you’ll have as much standing as any large Clan. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=12)