# Arrests of Mikramurka Defense Officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436 "2019-07-15T20:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/221 "2019-07-23T21:02:07Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Acassa Midular hasn’t been the Sebiestor Chief for nearly that long. We’ve been raising the issue of “[Insert Current Tribal Chief Here] doesn’t give two fucks about what anyone with the clan name ‘Ramijozana’ has to say,” but I didn’t think that needed clarifying. Yet here we are. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Convince a hundred small Clans’ Chieftains to support your grievance, convince even a _dozen_ , and you’ll have as much standing as any large Clan. It’s kind of hard to do that when everyone thinks we allied with the Amarr during the occupation. So forgive us if we haven’t been able to meet your ridiculously high standard. Meanwhile, we’ve been trying to change the tired old view that Ramijozanas are just the ignorant backwoods cousins that no one wants to acknowledge still exists. That’s why we’ve fielded five capsuleers (granted, two died and one failed out). If you’re genuinely interested in why being voiceless is such a problem for us, then a great place to start would be encouraging your clan chief to _acknowledge us_ when Chief Tiama brings issues to the floor. Which she does. Regularly. Some might even say “ad nauseum.” (Edited for grammar/clarity.) ---
**Author:** ![Literia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/literia/32/491152_2.png) [@Literia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Literia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/222 "2019-07-23T21:05:42Z")
I don’t have a clan chief or anything like that, I am just me, my kids and what is left of my family living in the Republic. I personally believe that we should remove all leaders and then let the people of the Tribes decide if they want to change their leadership or not. If they elect the same leader then their voice has been heard, we have to take a stand against the socitial poverty that is rampant through out the Republic and have plans in place to deal with the refugee’s that are consistently coming in from all over the cluster. People that come to the Republic fleeing from their chains, it is those people we need to focus our attention on. Teaching the refugee’s skills on how to do basic necessities of life that they have no clue how to do. Setting them up to get an education, so that way they can make the choices for them and their families. Give them the tools to step out of indentured and generational poverty. If we can not take care of our own that are coming into the Republic why should the leaders of the Republic sit on their fat asses at the expense of the working class. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/223 "2019-07-23T21:19:33Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > So forgive us if we haven’t been able to meet your ridiculously high standard. Being able to convince _one person_ that your grievance is valid. Just one. That’ll make convincing the second easier, because the first guy can help. If you’ve been trying for _fifty years_ and haven’t even gotten that snowball rolling, I don’t know what to tell you other than ‘get better at personal relationships’. Hire professionals. > [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > If you’re genuinely interested in why being voiceless is such a problem for us, then a great place to start would be encouraging your clan chief to _acknowledge us_ when Chief Tiama brings issues to the floor. Which she does. If I’m genuinely interested in finding out _why_ you want something changed, I should try to change the thing you want changed? How about your Chief talks to my Chief and actually explains _why_? How about you explain _why_ to me? It shouldn’t be hard to explain why you feel the way you do. Convincing me your grievance should be corrected might be harder, though. (I’m not saying it will, I’m saying it might.) Convince _one person_. Start the ball rolling through the snow. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/224 "2019-07-23T23:48:37Z")
If I knew _why_ no one cares about my clan, then I would have solved the problem already. Anyway, we’re off-topic, and you don’t care beyond being argumentative, so whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/225 "2019-07-26T09:11:06Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That doesn’t look like ‘known’. That looks like ‘ _unconfirmed_ ’ reports. To clarify: We are missing some unmarked youth, teenagers from a class that was supposed to go through the Voluval this Midyear. Of course, we have no confirmation at this point they were actually _taken_, nor _by who_ - a third party taking advantage of the chaos is not impossible either. Or if we do, _I_ am not privy to it, anyway, which is entirely possible given my current contact with clan authorities. But the kids are missing and they are not among the dead found at or close to their last known location. At this point I’m personally assuming the worst. Else ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/226 "2019-07-29T10:50:47Z")
> - Protests by Local Clans in Sundsele as Six Arrested Mikramurka Defense Officials Transferred to Tribal Council Custody What could possibly be the reason for transferring Sebiestor, arrested by the deeply questionable Planetary Security Co-Ordinator for Matar, Allek Berialsh, to the custody of the Tribal Council I wonder? Which members of the Council pushed for this to happen? Was it opposed at the time? What will happen to the arrested Sebiestor now? Why would Planetary Security Co-Ordinator for Matar, Allek Berialsh, hand over those he clearly considers guilty if he himself has the power to prosecute? If these Sebiestor are to be accused of a crime, there _must_ be a trial, and it _must_ be public. I find myself unpleasantly reminded of [certain](https://www.eveonline.com/article/explosions-destroy-arms-factory-100-dead-sabotage-suspected) [historical](https://www.eveonline.com/article/paramilitaries-seize-sabotage-suspect-republic-forces-helpless) [events](https://www.eveonline.com/article/kidnapped-nakugard-bombings-suspect-found-dead-on-krusual-station), and I for one refuse to stand silent and once again watch those who may very well be innocent be quietly, brutally, destroyed. The removal of the arrested Sebiestor is deeply concerning, and I would consider it as arguably unlawful, based on the [ruling of the Republic Justice Department made over a decade ago](https://www.eveonline.com/article/feuding-clans-turn-to-tribes-for-legal-rulings). In that case the dispute was more inter-clan, but nevertheless the ruling clearly states; > The court, […], ruled that inter-tribe legal issues fall under its own jurisdiction. > […] any decision made by either the tribal leaders or the tribal courts will not be legally binding. Based on that, I would strongly argue the Republic Justice Department have a far greater claim to jurisdiction over these arrested Sebiestor than the Tribal Council, at the very least in order to provide them with the protective custody I fear they so very much need. Of course, nobody has a greater claim over those arrested “Sundsele Six” than the Sebiestor ourselves, and I strongly support [Chief Midular’s call](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/empires-urge-concord-assembly-action-on-new-eden-defense-fund-proposals/) for their trial to take place within the Sebiestor’s own legal system. Our people should never have left our hands, particularly with such uncertainty surrounding the motivations of some of the _other_ Tribes involed. * * * To the Krusual; You have been a people of secrets, a society of the sly and the quick-witted, for almost your entire history. If you wish to enact your own brand of justice _within_ your Tribe, you may do so however you please and I would not oppose it. But this, this is _not_ your Tribe, this is _not_ a situation where your ways apply. If you wish to be a part of this Republic, then you must follow the laws of this Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/227 "2019-07-29T11:45:06Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > Of course, nobody has a greater claim over those arrested “Sundsele Six” than the Sebiestor ourselves, and I strongly support [Chief Midular’s call](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/empires-urge-concord-assembly-action-on-new-eden-defense-fund-proposals/) for their trial to take place within the Sebiestor’s own legal system. So, wait, if these “Sundsele Six” somehow left the whole planet at risk, endangering EVERY TRIBE on Matar, they should be judgeg only by their own interest group? How exactly would this differ from Khanid left to handle prosecutions over Kahah massacres? ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/228 "2019-07-29T11:50:01Z")
If they are actually guilty, do you think the Sebiestor will be excessively merciful to those who, as you say, > [@Teinyhr](#): > > left the whole planet at risk, endangering EVERY TRIBE on Matar ? Never mind the fact that it was the Sebiestor who were actually hit, the Sebiestor who lost family, the Sebiestor who _died_. If they are guilty, nobody is better suited to offer punishment. No group has more reason to want the _truth_. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/229 "2019-07-29T11:58:24Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > If they are actually guilty, do you think the Sebiestor will be excessively merciful to those who, as you say, > > > left the whole planet at risk, endangering EVERY TRIBE on Matar > > ? > > Never mind the fact that it was the Sebiestor who were actually hit, the Sebiestor who lost family, the Sebiestor who _died_ . > > If they are guilty, nobody is better suited to offer punishment. No group has more reason to want the _truth_ . Seeing how you’ve been building up an “us vs. them” mentality for weeks now, I’d at least consider it feasible Sebiestor would possibly spare them from death sentencing. Similarly, no other group has a vested interest in suppressing truth. At the very least, the Sebiestor trial would need outside observers from all the tribes. I, and anyone else, has no reason to assume Sebiestor would be above deceit and subterfuge either if it suits their interests. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/230 "2019-07-29T12:05:05Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Seeing how you’ve been building up an “us vs. them” mentality for weeks now, I’d at least consider it feasible Sebiestor would possibly spare them from death sentencing. I sincerely doubt that I have enough influence within my Tribe to be able to affect the decisions of the courts by my mere posting. > [@Teinyhr](#): > > Similarly, no other group has a vested interest in suppressing truth. I would argue against that pretty strongly, although as I’m sure you can guess what I’d say I will spare you that for now. > [@Teinyhr](#): > > At the very least, the Sebiestor trial would need outside observers from all the tribes. I would hope whoever ends up managing the trial that outside observers would be a necessity. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/231 "2019-07-29T12:22:19Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > I sincerely doubt that I have enough influence within my Tribe to be able to affect the decisions of the courts by my mere posting. You don’t need to influence courts, just public opinion. Like it or not, whether I like it or not, your words do have weight. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/232 "2019-07-29T12:24:10Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Similarly, no other group has a vested interest in suppressing truth. I will ask. What truth would _the Sebiestor_ have a vested interest of suppressing, here? This was indeed a _planetary attack_, but it was not a _random_ one. It was a targeted one, and it was targeted against my tribe, against Mikramurka, against Sundsele. And, given what lead to it, yes, possibly against Rhiannon, in an attempt to get _to me_. I am not universally loved in Sundsele, no. There are those who see me as too radical, too non-trad. But I assure you, there aren’t _tribal people in that region_ who would allow an attack their own tribal lands just to get a revenge in for _me_. Maybe you are correct and it _is_ the ‘Sundsele Six’ arrested because they know something. But if that is the case, it is not the _Sebiestor Tribe_ they could damn with the knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/233 "2019-07-29T12:31:26Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > What truth would _the Sebiestor_ have a vested interest of suppressing, here? As always with the limited information avaiable, I was and still am speculating, that for example certain Sebiestor sold out the ancestral home of the Minmatar people. Despite how both of you are trying to spin it, it was an attack against ALL Minmatar. Sebiestor suffered for it the most - no one is denying that. But this is not just about the Sebiestor. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/234 "2019-07-29T12:34:48Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > this is not just about the Sebiestor. It kind of is though. The Sebiestor were attacked, the Sebiestor were investigated, the Sebiestor were arrested. _Someone_ has got it out for us. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/235 "2019-07-29T12:36:38Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > _Someone_ has got it out for us. Maybe next time certain someone shouldn’t ask lunatics to [“bring it.”](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/soerr-humanitarian-aid-in-the-current-empire-crisis/147214/14) ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/236 "2019-07-29T12:38:06Z")
> - “Sundsele Six” Handed Back to Sebiestor Tribe as Jurisdiction in Case Affirmed by Tribal Council [Wonderful news!](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/concord-assembly-passes-tax-and-brokerage-increases-to-bolster-new-eden-defense-fund/) ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/237 "2019-07-29T12:42:21Z")
The media blackout over this is maddening. But I assume then, this is an internal matter, if that is what they decided. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/238 "2019-07-29T13:31:00Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Maybe next time certain someone shouldn’t ask lunatics to [“bring it.”](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/soerr-humanitarian-aid-in-the-current-empire-crisis/147214/14) For the love of gods. _Yes_, on a hindsight, I ■■■■■■ up that one. I had much higher confidence in our planetary defenses than I should have had. I also did not account for the fact that they might have had inside help - which, I am afraid, I suspect they did. Nothing else explains the ■■■■ up of this scale even remotely as well. Maybe someone figured allowing a small-scale attack targeted at my clan could be used put pressure on me? “Play nice if you want your clan protected”? Gods and spirits, the Gultratren Conspiracy is dead and buried and few even remember, but not like there is any reason anyone should take my word for that without… guarantees, and there’s only so many ways to control a capsuleer. (As has been now proven several times, I can be detained, yes, but in the end only because I agree to it. Maybe next time I’ll just throw the backup switch and save my lawyer the trouble?) And no, I don’t believe anyone of the tribes would go for this kind of devastation on purpose, but maybe that minor plan backfired and it blew up way, way bigger than they expected, and now there is a cover-up going on? If that suspicion is true, though, I doubt it was Seb work. No one local hates me enough to do that to Rhiannon, who they know I am somewhat estranged from to begin with. Much, much more likely the tribesmen and -women arrested know something of what went on in Mikramurka defense that they, in someone’s opinion, should not. I doubt we’ll hear the truth about it, though. There is likely an arrangement to hush it up. We get our people, but they keep their mouths shut. It gets covered, move on, nothing to see here. And fine by me. We _cannot_ afford a civil war. “Whatever it takes, never again another Long Night.” I remain Elsebeth Shaninn, of Rhiannon, born Rhiannon XO, Unitas Nusquam Est ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/239 "2019-07-29T13:52:08Z")
It s funny how every one crying wolf here is a Sebiestor with remarkably _little support from any other tribe_. It is almost as if they resent the the loss of their political dominance over the tribes and their deeply corrupt government, and can’t stand to see a Tribal Republic that shares power between the 7 Tribes. It is thanks to Sanmatar that we finally have a government that is truly representative of our Tribal Heritage. It is thanks to the Sanmatar that we live in a time were the 7 Tribes are even united! You lament that fact that the Elder Fleet was able to save literally Millions of our people, bring back the Starmanir and show the Cluster that we, The People of Matar have strength? How can you call yourself Matari? In regards to the arrests, the attack that sparked them is a tragedy that needs to be avoided in the future. Action needed to be taken, and it was done, yet you condemn those actions simply because they are ‘inconvenient’ for your tribe? The Sebiestor have a long and now detailed history of corruption. Is it any surprise that same corruption extends into their internal affairs? This entire thread is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Kril\_Efrit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kril_efrit/32/336288_2.png) [@Kril\_Efrit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kril_Efrit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/240 "2019-07-29T15:27:52Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > To the Krusual: > > You have been a people of secrets, a society of the sly and the quick-witted, for almost your entire history. You talk like an Amarr. The slanders of the kin-takers and kin-slayers are not the “history” of our people. > [@](#): > > If you wish to be a part of this Republic, then you must follow the laws of this Republic. You reason like an Amarr. There is more to the Tribal Republic than “laws”, for there is also tradition. Given the company you keep, perhaps it’s not so surprising that you speak and think like an Amarr. Your hysterical conspiracy theories are nonsense and propaganda that serve only the foes of the Seven Tribes. You have witnessed nothing more or less than the due process of Tribal law _and_ tradition. Yet you have complained and screeched your slanders at every step. Tribal sovereignty has been upheld. This is our way. I could not say what _your_ way is. It is alien to me. Those who work to ensure the security of Matar, and all our worlds, are certain that the old ways will see justice done in this matter. Kril Efrit, Matar Planetary Security [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=13)