# Arrests of Mikramurka Defense Officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436 "2019-07-15T20:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/21 "2019-07-16T04:53:57Z")
Ahh, my bad. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/22 "2019-07-16T05:15:24Z")
Consolidation of power is a bad thing. _Coordination_ of power, the ability to work in concert, that’s a good thing. Taking the power to make change and govern on behalf of our people out of the hands of the Tribes and securing it in one person—_while_ giving that one person the authority to hold onto that power until _he_ feels ‘conditions are right’ to set it aside? That’s bad. That’s fox guarding the henhouse bad. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/23 "2019-07-16T05:38:03Z")
I actually do agree with you, my only problem is, do you view that as a possibility? Admittedly I wish for that, I really do. I just don’t necessarily feel it’s a certain outcome, ya know? We are still fractured, even if our goals are aligned… ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/24 "2019-07-16T05:41:09Z")
Says the woman living in the benevolent dictatorship of Goonswarm. I haven’t seen any inclination that the Sanmatar is doing anything other than acting in the best interest of the Tribes. All the Tribes. All **seven** of us. We say things like ‘never again’ and it happened _again_. Someone came to Matar and enslaved Matari. We need deeds, not words. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/25 "2019-07-16T05:42:30Z")
Do I view which as a possibility? Cooperation between the Tribes? Yes, with work. A Demagogue seizing power in a violent coup with the assistance of two tribes he’s known to have had ties to for over a decade, and the support of a third composed mostly of political newcomers who are extremely grateful to him _and_ his allies for engineering their rescue? Yeah. Yeah, I see that happening really easily. > [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > I haven’t seen any inclination that the Sanmatar is doing anything other than acting in the best interest of the Tribes. All the Tribes. All **seven** of us. Because murdering thousands of politicians and civil servants without allowing any due process is in the best interests of all of the Tribes, right? As for Goonswarm… I can _stop_ being a Goon. What’s more, I, me, personally, can hold Mittens to account if I think he’s screwing up or not acting in the line’s best interests. Any member can. You just better be _right_. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/26 "2019-07-16T05:44:39Z")
We do need deeds, not words. We need a military that can crush those who threaten OUR Republic. You view every other civilization in the cluster, they are harmonized, they are one. How can we stand to our foes without that? ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/27 "2019-07-16T05:47:15Z")
I hope your right. really I wish that to be true but I don’t wish for our Republic to see another Day of Darkness. We need to be unified, we need to be ready. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/28 "2019-07-16T05:48:59Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > You view every other civilization in the cluster, they are harmonized, they are one. No they’re not. Look at the Empire. See the tensions between the Sarum/Ardishapur bloc and the Khanid/Tash-Murkon alliance. The State is still dealing with issues from U-Nats and Provists. Federal infighting is literally listed as a growth sector in their quarterly economic reports. You look at them each and see harmony. Look past the surface. Look past the PR. Not holding our leaders accountable will _cause_ another Day of Darkness. Only this time, the ones wielding the chains and collars will be _Minmatar_. Power-hungry despots are no less authoritarian for being kin. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/29 "2019-07-16T05:50:34Z")
I cannot believe what I just read. Arrendis, I have always respected you, but that went across the line to insanity. The Sanmatar has done so much to liberate Minmatar from the Empire, and you’re accusing him of wanting to enslave us? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/30 "2019-07-16T05:51:19Z")
Did I? Or did I merely warn against the dangers of trusting _any_ leader with too much power? I got asked if I thought that scenario was _possible_. Is it? Yes. Yes, it most certainly is. I haven’t said I think that’s what’s happening _now_. I haven’t said it’s not. I’ve merely said ‘it’s possible’, and then warned of what _else_ is possible. Don’t read things into what people say. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/31 "2019-07-16T05:53:11Z")
Those are all strengths we hold over them. We can survive if we are one. It isn’t a perfect situation but it is one we must bare. We cannot let ourselves be caught up in their weaknesses as they dive into. We NEED to persevere. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/32 "2019-07-16T05:56:22Z")
I don’t believe she went across the line, please let her speak. We must listen or our greatest strength, our experiences are wasted. We will never be safe if we can’t communicate. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/33 "2019-07-16T05:56:40Z")
And yet, it’s only through vigilance and holding our leaders to account that we avoiding falling into exactly the same trap they’re all in now. Root the corruption out, as fast as possible, as often as possible. To do otherwise _is_ weakness. And we let ourselves be weak after the coup. We didn’t demand answers right away. We didn’t hold to account the people who _murdered_ civil servants on the basis of ‘evidence’ they only produced after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/34 "2019-07-16T05:57:05Z")
When I read: > [@Arrendis](#): > > Not holding our leaders accountable will _cause_ another Day of Darkness. Only this time, the ones wielding the chains and collars will be _Minmatar_ . Power-hungry despots are no less authoritarian for being kin. I take it at face value. Dance around it if you want, but that’s just fear-mongering. You’re very good at dancing in and out of positions and slippery as a travel 'ceptor, but invoking the image of Matari enslaving other Matari, in any context is demagoguery. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/35 "2019-07-16T05:58:24Z")
No, it is **warning**. Don’t think for a moment we can’t be like that. Don’t think for a moment that we can’t be _just like the Ammatar_. They are us, with decisions made early with maybe the best of intentions… but nothing stays pure. Nothing is immune to decay. Only vigilance wards against it. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/36 "2019-07-16T05:59:37Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > Shorai and I used pretty words because we were asked to be diplomatic. Don’t mistake our ‘applause’ for approval when we’re clearly stating that we have reservations about the appointment. > > #3 rule is to not cherry-pick quotes to support your argument, or at least to keep reading before saying ‘Aha! I got her!’ I did read the whole thing, yes. I’m literally not seeing how any of that is a warning about consolidation of power, even veiled. Apparently I’d needed to have quote the whole damn thing to not be accused of cherry picking but I suppose it’s too much to expect some benefit of a doubt that yes, I did read the whole thing. You know, since I encouraged my clan to get involved in the matter as well and all, since I thought you were the sensible one, but I’m beginning to think I was mistaken. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > I… really don’t like this. I don’t see a tangled web. I see a bunch of coincidences strung together. However, ya this is something I don’t see a reason for. There has to be a reason for this, an actual reason. There better be a reason. I don’t know what to say… Wow. Because it is a bunch of coincidences strung together. I wonder if I had the time to scrounge local news and public logs of training deployments, what kind of utterly nonsensical crap I could machine out of this about some incredible Sebiestor conspiracy trying to extinct Mikramurka Alpacas. I did throw around an idea for a reason for the arrests, it was that maybe there were blood raider collaborators in Sundsele, in the Sebiestor Tribe itself. It’s not like the Sebiestors are any more incorruptible than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/37 "2019-07-16T06:00:31Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > It’s not like the Sebiestors are any more incorruptible than the rest of us. No, we’re not. And we should be held to account as well. Hopefully, that’s what this is. But that can’t be assumed, either. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/38 "2019-07-16T06:02:21Z")
Then maybe we can wait until we see what is actually happening. If something untoward is happening, then we can act. But right now, this all started from an ex-(maybe)-Angel’s wild conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/39 "2019-07-16T06:03:27Z")
> [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > this all started from an ex-(maybe)-Angel’s wild conspiracy theory. This particular discussion? Yes. The need to be critical and skeptical of our leaders? No. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436/40 "2019-07-16T06:05:07Z")
> [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > Then maybe we can wait until we see what is actually happening. I fully agree, let’s see what reasons are put forward, I will say however I am confused what they could be. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/arrests-of-mikramurka-defense-officials/175436.md?page=3)