# Artillery T2 vs Autocannon T2 and ability to get to desired combat ranges (fitting issue) **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [March 19, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986 "2018-03-19T21:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/1 "2018-03-19T21:48:04Z")
Currently, you can fit all seven Autocannon II’s onto a machariel and fit either an AB or MJD (actually you could even put both on your ship)) and still have fitting room left over. This means that a pilot wanting to use autocannon II’s can easily accomplish what he needs to do in combat which is close the distance between himself and his intended target so all is good here. But… My main has 130 million SPs, perfect fitting skills but cannot put Howitzer II’s onto a completely stripped Machariel it comes up 85 PWG short. If I add a large MJD (or even a regular MWD) the ship is now 1460 PWG short and i still have not even put any other mods onto the ship. Summary: An autocannon T2 pilot can easily put both the guns and the propulsion mods he needs to quickly cover the distance to his target; whereas, an Artillery T2 pilot can not even fit the guns on his ship without a crutch (mod, implant or rig). Certainly then he cannot fit either a MWD or MJD to quickly gain the range he needs to properly use long range artillery weapons. My request is that Artillery II Howitzers have there fitting requirements made identical to a Howitzer I so that an Artillery pilot can quickly move to his desirable long range combat position (using a MWD or MJD), just as an autocannon pilot can currently move quickly to his desired short range combat position (using a MWD or MJD). [Again, without the Artillery II Howitzer pilot needing to use a crutch (implant, mod or rig) just to put the guns and modules he needs to carry on the combat at long ranges.] ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/2 "2018-03-19T22:19:01Z")
Every minmatar ship that fits artillery needs at least one fitting mod when putting T2 1400s and tank on the ship. You make a large sacrifice in fitting for the largest subcap alpha in the game. An alternative is to use faction artillery, though you still cant use t2 ammo (yet, one day CCP will finish weapon tiericide). ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/3 "2018-03-19T22:36:23Z")
Big guns,much fitting,problem? ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/4 "2018-03-19T23:36:22Z")
Nope. I dont see any problems with 1400s using lots of grid. If OP wants artillery that doesnt require fitting mods, he should look at 1200s. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/5 "2018-03-20T00:17:01Z")
Reactor controls. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/6 "2018-03-20T00:45:10Z")
Ancillary current router rigs or gun down. Try that with missile launchers… ---
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/7 "2018-03-20T11:38:10Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > You make a large sacrifice in fitting for the largest subcap alpha in the game. An alternative is to use faction artillery, though you still cant use t2 ammo (yet, one day CCP will finish weapon tiericide). And yet the highest sub-cap weapon system damage wise (short range hybrids) dont require an implant, rig or mod crutch to make them work. ---
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/8 "2018-03-20T11:41:47Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > Nope. I dont see any problems with 1400s using lots of grid. > > If OP wants artillery that doesnt require fitting mods, he should look at 1200s. I dont have a problem with 1400’s requiring a lot of fitting either, all the other 1400’s are hard to fit but you CAN fit them and that is the point. p.s. While you might be content down grading weapons when 1400 T2s should be viable without a crutch for a fully skilled pilot, im not content to settle for a broken game mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/9 "2018-03-20T11:42:47Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Reactor controls. Yes i recognize the crutches you can use to go around the broken mechanic but fixing the problem is what im asking CCP to do. ---
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/10 "2018-03-20T11:46:00Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Ancillary current router rigs or gun down. Try that with missile launchers… I understand the crutches that can be used to get around a bad game mechanic that should have been clear from my post, and yes i have used a cruise missile MJD / MWD setup many times but that isnt 1400mm projectile game play, nor does it solve the problem that T2 1400mm projectile game play is broken. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/11 "2018-03-20T14:15:58Z")
‘broken mechanic’ and ‘problem’? Perhaps you should expand your small world and fit some other ships. Try putting tachyons on an apoc or navy geddon. Try fitting the biggest weapons on a thorax, a brutix, or half the caldari line. Fitting mods are not ‘crutches’ they are pretty normal on anything that OTHER than auto cannon ships. Begone petulant snowflake! ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/12 "2018-03-20T14:19:50Z")
Blasters dont do near the alpha artillery does. We are not talking dps, but alpha. Under the best of conditions, blasters get a 6k alpha, but their max range is maybe 15km. 1400 artillery, under the best conditions does 12k damage at 80-120km, nearly double of what blasters can do and at an insanely higher range. Blasters can not blow through active tanks in 1 shot. Artillery can. Blaster’s trade off for their damage is range and cap useage. Artillery’s trade off is fitting and RoF. So yes, fitting the largest subcap gun in the game with the highest alpha requires fitting sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/13 "2018-03-20T14:22:37Z")
If you really want to use a full rack of arties, i suggest you use a ship that was designed for it. The maelstrom. The mach does a lot of things, but it is not all singing all dancing. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/14 "2018-03-20T14:25:07Z")
Maelstrom will have the same situation. It can technically fit a full rack, but doesnt leave enough grid for tank/prop. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/15 "2018-03-20T14:34:36Z")
Well true, but only just. Like a power diagnostic, which helps tank 😛, or single implant is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/16 "2018-03-20T14:40:39Z")
this is working as intended. its not a problem its balance. you will also find it with other LR weapon systems like beams ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/17 "2018-03-20T15:47:32Z")
Pretty much. You should try and fit a rack of tachyons on an Apoc and then a rep or a mwd. However there is a ship that can fit those howitzers and you only need to fit 4 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/18 "2018-03-20T16:00:40Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Begone petulant snowflake! Made me LOL. Capslock LOL. Not just chuckle. Also, I echo this very adeptly stated request. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/19 "2018-03-20T16:04:13Z")
isn’t there a similar problem with neutron blasters? so its not like it is even exclusively the long range guns. its almost like there is give and take when it comes to fitting ---
**Author:** ![Dredge\_Veros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dredge_veros/32/60696_2.png) [@Dredge\_Veros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dredge_Veros)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986/20 "2018-03-21T08:49:16Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > So yes, fitting the largest subcap gun in the game with the highest alpha requires fitting sacrifices. It shouldn’t, as i mentioned elsewhere, the highest dps weapon system doesnt need a crutch to work so saying the highest alpha does is just picking your favorite, ‘best statistic / Preferred combat style’ and claiming the one you like is okay but high alpha is not okay. Arbitrary shouldn’t be the basis of game design. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/artillery-t2-vs-autocannon-t2-and-ability-to-get-to-desired-combat-ranges-fitting-issue/63986.md?page=2)