# Astra House not a good replacement for POS's **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674 "2017-09-12T00:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ptraci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ptraci/32/18349_2.png) [@Ptraci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ptraci)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/41 "2017-09-13T13:29:41Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so what youre basically saying is a playstyle which was once viable is no longer viable and this is how the game has always beeen because the game was always like that No, what I’m saying is that CCP made the decisions they did after careful consideration in order to keep the game balanced. Lots of playstyles have changed. I remember when the torp raven was God back in the early days. As a very old Caldari pilot, I remember when missiles were overpowered - pre 2005ish. I remember when drones were nerfed. And then nerfed again. Dreads used to have drones and those got taken away. The Titan doomsday used to be area of effect and used to kill everything and everyone in a subcap. That got changed. And then changed again. Tiericide… lots of ships lost functionality and play styles changed. Guess what. EVE is an evolving game, and devs are CONSTANTLY removing functionality here and tweaking things there. HTFU. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/42 "2017-09-13T13:47:45Z")
yeah i was expecting an appeal to authority well tiericide and ship balance changes dont really have anything to do with this argument the argument comes down to locking cap users into large corporations while denying smaller corporations the ability to use caps you still havent explained why you support this change and are so against retaining the accessibility of caps to smaller corps ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/43 "2017-09-13T13:55:19Z")
> [@Ptraci](#): > > so what youre basically saying is a playstyle which was once viable is no longer viable and this is how the game has always beeen because the game was always like that the playstyle is still a viable one, it just requires more up front isk investment, many playstyles have changed over the years as new features have been introduced and old ones removed. battleship mining used to be a thing, now its kinda pointless. There used to be racial mining cruisers and mining frigates. Jetcan mining has been rendered mostly obsolete, and with it the profession of can flipping. torp ravens, tracking titans, ships that could launch more than 5 drones, mine fields, and any other number of changes that have made certain “play styles” obsolete. in fact the mining cruisers is probably the closest to what your complaint is. the mining cruisers where cheaper and faster than the current mining barges but didn’t have the same yield. your complaint is like someone who used to use mining cruisers, coming back and complaining because those ships have had their mining bonuses removed and now they are being “forced” into a slower, more expensive ship, who cares if the new ship is objectively better. their “playstyle” has been ruined. ---
**Author:** ![Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/juvir_shadowborne/32/23841_2.png) [@Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Juvir_Shadowborne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/44 "2017-09-13T13:55:25Z")
> [@Etheoma](#): > > As I see it due to the loss of being able to fit capitals in a astra you are losing functionality, I would suggest adding a service module to allow you to have limited space to put capitals in so they you could fit 5 - 10 capitals this could also be used for the Fort to fit a limited number of super caps. > > Because with the POS you could use it to log off your super caps and with a capital SMA you could fit a few capitals, for the Astra to be a good replacement for POS’s you should at least be able to have limited capacity for capitals. > > The bonus for the Fort for storing capitals would be two fold this way first you do not need to expect fuel to store them and second you get infinite space. The same bonus would apply for super caps to the keepstar. > > The model could be expensive to run and buy furthermore I would make it as just another tab which you can set right to access it, furthermore if there is not space in the capital service tab you cannot leave your capital, so in that way it is almost completely a replacement for POS’s because you can log off in the Astra but if you do not have access or there is no room you will not be able to leave it behind or change ships. If you want to emulate the small pos, tether your caps to an astrahus. If you’re trying to hide in a WH you don’t belong in (which from everything i’m reading, is EXACTLY what you’re doing) you’re better off anyway. Tether and safelog, you don’t need to dock. If you don’t want to invest in a fortizar, don’t try to dock your caps, simple solution. It sounds like you’re poking into other people’s holes, and trying to farm their stuff under their noses, but don’t want to invest in actually “staying”. But you want the defenses of a citadel, dockability of a fortizar, at the pricetag of a astrahus. Simple answer: no. You either have the expendable but tetherable astrahus pricetag, or the defendable yet dockable, albeit pricier fortizar. You don’t get to have both. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/45 "2017-09-13T14:00:46Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > your complaint is like someone who used to use mining cruisers, coming back and complaining because those ships have had their mining bonuses removed and now they are being “forced” is this directed at me or ptraci because i dont have any complaint i dont use caps or poses i just want to know why you guys keep repeating that ops idea is so bad without any argument or explanation of why its bad other than some speculation that it might affect pricing of other citadels which is just a reactionary assumption and completely irrelevant anyway ---
**Author:** ![Beachura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beachura/32/16655_2.png) [@Beachura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beachura)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/46 "2017-09-13T14:02:59Z")
_To be honest_, one is just a little excited at docking Super Capitals inside of a structure. One feels all **gooey** inside that the precious titans can be cuddled and sheltered once more. _I don’t feel that the medium size citadel is a replacement for a starbase, the smaller starbase facilities are much less expensive._ ---
**Author:** ![Ptraci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ptraci/32/18349_2.png) [@Ptraci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ptraci)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/47 "2017-09-13T14:44:01Z")
> [@Beachura](#): > > To be honest, one is just a little excited at docking Super Capitals inside of a structure. Tell me about it. CCP single-handedly wrecked a large portion of the player intelligence community with that one. Talk about **removing functionality**. For the uninitiated: There was a not insignificant amount of time and energy spent by players compiling lists of known supercapital pilots, supercapital ships and locations. Said pilots were constantly on watch lists to see if and when they logged in, and locator agents were used, as well as other resources, to know where they were or where they had previously logged off in their supercapitals. The ability to dock supers - combined with skill injectors - means that anyone can be a supercapital pilot given a few thousand dollars or in game equivalent, and anyone can navigate to any of the known Keepstar free-ports around New Eden, hop into a super and be off and away before the rest of New Eden knows about it. But yeah, let’s pretend CCP has to **keep** previous functionality shall we? ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/48 "2017-09-13T14:49:18Z")
I don’t want to defend him. However… CCP constantly changes playstyles. I have some medium sized ships with large rigs and i still have Drake with 8(?) heavy missile launchers. At some point you COULD fit these ships this way but then don’t. So your “a playstyle which was once viable is no longer viable and this is how the game has always beeen” is true. This is what the game is. People used to log off carriers and supercarriers in POSes. They can do the same now with citadels using tether range. Nothing really changed. The exception is Capital something array but as someone mentioned already it was not something you could put into small POS. And i personally agree that using capital ships (prices starting from 2-3 Billion ISK) does not allow someone to call himself “small guy”. ---
**Author:** ![Andlat\_Vard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andlat_vard/32/10386_2.png) [@Andlat\_Vard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andlat_Vard)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/49 "2017-09-13T15:22:30Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > an astrahaus is an approximate replacement for a small pos Only an astra takes a day to anchor, nobody has time for that during WH evictions ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/50 "2017-09-13T15:42:13Z")
> [@Ptraci](#): > > let’s pretend CCP has to keep previous functionality shall we? so thats your argument because watchlists were removed… well okay then lol ---
**Author:** ![Martina\_Conrad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/martina_conrad/32/23392_2.png) [@Martina\_Conrad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Martina_Conrad)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/51 "2017-09-13T15:46:26Z")
For me the bigger thing is building/buying a keepstar to dock supers/titans in which I would like to see an alternative too due to the much higher cost difference vs a POS. At the moment you are able to use a POS to keep them safe which you don’t need a large fleet to defend and are a much much cheaper loss when destroyed compared to a keepstar which is an obvious target if you don’t have a few hundred people to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/52 "2017-09-13T15:47:18Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > So your “a playstyle which was once viable is no longer viable and this is how the game has always beeen” is true. This is what the game is. yeah thats true but still doesnt explain why there is so much hostility for the idea which allows more accessibility for players to use caps > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > And i personally agree that using capital ships (prices starting from 2-3 Billion ISK) does not allow someone to call himself “small guy”. well 2-3 billion isnt exactly much for a single player 12 billion is quite a lot though a small corp of 2-3 players is going to struggle more to get the larger citadel without joining a larger corp so yeah theyre little guys ---
**Author:** ![Beachura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beachura/32/16655_2.png) [@Beachura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beachura)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/53 "2017-09-13T15:51:53Z")
Almost, not quite. Inside a citadel your Super Class Titan / Carrier is actually safe. If the citadel is destroyed then it moves into “asset safety” where one has to pay a portion of the value to have it placed in a safe low security station. (_if you don’t move it to a place in the same system yourself for free_) A Player Owned Starbase doesn’t allow you to leave your ship safely, you can leave your super in the citadel and fly something else. In the past super pilots were largely dedicated pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Martina\_Conrad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/martina_conrad/32/23392_2.png) [@Martina\_Conrad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Martina_Conrad)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/54 "2017-09-13T15:55:38Z")
Give this new structure no asset safety in any type of space then. I have known some people to leave their supers in x-large sma’s so they can be stored. If you disabled asset safety it would work in a very similar way. ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/55 "2017-09-13T16:12:37Z")
A small corp of 2-3 players can each kick in the “not much” value of a few billion each and put up a dock for their 2-3 bilion isk ships. And frankly, a 2-3 man corp may as well be solo. Capitals where designed from day 1 to be corporate level assets. The fact that individual pilots can afford them now doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Beachura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beachura/32/16655_2.png) [@Beachura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beachura)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/56 "2017-09-13T16:17:55Z")
One must disagree, carriers have been split into fleet logistics (Force Auxiliary) and almost solo entities. Entities have evolved over time, and only super capitals play exactly the same role as they used to. You see it everywhere… carriers backing up gate camps these days. Even the insurance pretty much covers the cost. Hell, you can activate warp gates in a capital now. **“Carriers are slowly becoming the new battleships”** ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/57 "2017-09-13T16:19:38Z")
> [@Beachura](#): > > carriers backing up gate camps these days. that gate camp consisting of 2 pilots? even in your own example, the carrier is being used to support a corp of players. if they are supporting a corp, then the corp can kick in for a place to dock them. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/58 "2017-09-13T16:19:55Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > Capitals where designed from day 1 to be corporate level assets. The fact that individual pilots can afford them now doesn’t change that. right like the whole mining cruisers thing you pointed out ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/59 "2017-09-13T16:22:18Z")
mining cruisers where designed to be solo assets, mining barges are solo assets, POS’s where designed to be corporate assets (notice how you can only launch them for corp, not for yourself?) citadels are also designed to be corporate assets. Capitals where designed to be corporate assets, and they still are designed to be used with the support of a corporation. nothing has changed except the price tag. just because you CAN do something solo, doesn’t mean it was designed with that use in mind, and doesn’t mean that any changes need to be made in order to facilitate that style of play. ---
**Author:** ![Problem\_Addict](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/problem_addict/32/24121_2.png) [@Problem\_Addict](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Problem_Addict)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674/60 "2017-09-13T16:27:43Z")
I agree with OP. Citadels are nice, but the ability to have a POS was nicer. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/astra-house-not-a-good-replacement-for-poss/23674.md?page=4)