# Asymmetrical Risk and the Need for Escalation **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198 "2017-09-29T00:00:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Abyss\_Azizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abyss_azizora/32/15938_2.png) [@Abyss\_Azizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abyss_Azizora)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/61 "2017-10-01T01:40:25Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > > [@Abyss\_Azizora](#): > > > > I know quite a few people who use the trick, and have not been banned for using it since alpha clones were added. > > Then name them, and report them, otherwise there’s no reason to believe you. It’s correct that it’s easily doable, but if gankers get caught multiboxing alphas, they’ll get banned with them. It’s not rocket science to draw the obvious connection. anyhow, you not reporting them makes me want to report _you_. 😁 I did report one of them, he’s still doing it, though with brand new alphas. Like I said, it’s pointless to get them banned, they just make new ones, CCP can’t stop them. Other guy is an old friend, and I see no point. “Scipio Artelius: Evidence?” How exactly would you like me to prove it without breaking forum rules? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/62 "2017-10-01T07:16:40Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Always a good take to Dracvlad. Nobody is more impressed by Dracvlad than Dracvlad…a true legend in his own mind. I enjoyed your salt, premium quality mate… I rather like it when you lot spit your dummies out when your narrative gets exposed, only nerfs to ganking what a joke!!! ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/63 "2017-10-01T07:18:35Z")
> [@Abyss\_Azizora](#): > > How exactly would you like me to prove it without breaking forum rules? It’s trivial to at least rule out alphas. Just scan one of their fits (or loot one of their wrecks after they explode) and if they are using T2 weapons, you can rule it out. If you see them multiboxing T1-fit ships, that might be a sign that you are correct that they are alphas although they might not be multiboxing. The Burn Jita featured many gank fleets full of alphas which is totally kosher. Given that that data is often already [just on the killboards](https://gankerlookout.com/#victim%3A%20Providence%3B%20victim%3A%20Charon%3B%20victim%3A%20Obelisk%3B%20victim%3A%20Fenrir%3B%20victim%3A%20Ark%3B%20victim%3A%20Rhea%3B%20victim%3A%20Anshar%3B%20victim%3A%20Nomad%3B%20victim%3A%20Orca%3B%20victim%3A%20Bowhead) in the form of them flying stealth bombers or using T2 weapons, it is obvious to see that mostly these multiboxers are using omega accounts. And why wouldn’t they? As was said above skill injectors allow me to multibox as many omega gankers as I can handle for next to no ongoing cost by just also using that account as a skill farm and selling off the SP. Omega gankers are also just so much better in terms of DPS, only a fool would spend the time breaking the rules in such an obvious way and using alphas rather than just setting up a skill point farm and selling the SP once a month to multibox gank for next to no ISK cost and completely legally. Maybe that ease of multi-boxing gank fleets is a problem, but if it is it seems to me way down the list of the other game balance issues injectors have created. And compared to alpha clones, injectors have had much more of an impact on the balance of the game than free access to gimped accounts which were already in the game (and theoretically abusable by gankers) in the form of the free limited trial. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/64 "2017-10-01T08:06:57Z")
> [@Abyss\_Azizora](#): > > “Scipio Artelius: Evidence?” > > How exactly would you like me to prove it without breaking forum rules? Without breaking forum rules? You’re the one who has claimed it, so surely you have proof of your claim. Surely you wouldn’t just be speculating without any factual basis just because it suits an argument you want to make? There should be no need to break forum rules to prove something you’ve stated so definitely. For example, if you can show from the lossmails of “most of the multiboxing gankers” that the characters are all flying T1 ships of their own race, fit only with T1 weapons constantly, then you’d have a pretty reasonable argument to start from. But the absence of evidence makes your claim nothing more than the typical, opinion that matches your own bias, wrapped up as though it is real. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/65 "2017-10-01T19:08:17Z")
I think we can say that there is a definite downward trend in barge ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/66 "2017-10-01T19:09:21Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I enjoyed your salt, premium quality mate… > > I rather like it when you lot spit your dummies out when your narrative gets exposed, only nerfs to ganking what a joke!!! OMG, I am truly honored. Dracvlad replied. What a wonderful day. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/67 "2017-10-01T19:11:42Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Given that that data is often already just on the killboards in the form of them flying stealth bombers or using T2 weapons, it is obvious to see that mostly these multiboxers are using omega accounts. And why wouldn’t they? As was said above skill injectors allow me to multibox as many omega gankers as I can handle for next to no ongoing cost by just also using that account as a skill farm and selling off the SP. Omega gankers are also just so much better in terms of DPS, only a fool would spend the time breaking the rules in such an obvious way and using alphas rather than just setting up a skill point farm and selling the SP once a month to multibox gank for next to no ISK cost and completely legally. And to add on to Black Pedro’s point, gankers are quite adept at doing their ganking while -10. No need to risk the ban hammer. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/68 "2017-10-01T19:52:37Z")
i find it very problematic that the ganking scene has been reduced to barges and freighters, and how apparently no one understands that this is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/69 "2017-10-01T21:55:52Z")
You don’t get out much? I see many other ships being ganked on a regular basis. T2 and T3 cruisers for examples. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/70 "2017-10-01T23:38:12Z")
Not what i’m saying. Not your fault, though. i shouldn’t be writing comments tired and in such an half assed manner. I didn’t mean to say freighters and barges are all that are being ganked. My perspective was more related to public perception. I need to research something first, but i’ll get back to this point. Your response to my post made me aware that i’ve dropped some important considerations, and how they relate to the past. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/71 "2017-10-02T01:00:20Z")
Numerically you are correct that the ganking numbers are down. Way down from just a few short years ago. But I think that adapting to the current metrics (like a few have) provides a stream of profitable ganking loot. The “low hanging fruit” of ganking miners is in most cases no longer profitable and is probably done for other reasons. Highsec is entirely too safe. Tthe risk from wardecs can be quite easily mitigated. And other risks are so sparse as to be nearly inconsequential. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/72 "2017-10-02T05:31:27Z")
The reason is because there is a lot less low hanging fruit, because hisec is as dead as hell, which the OP will find when he gets into it. He can still can flip if he finds someone dumb enough to jetc can mine it, there are not many, and he goes suspect… He can suspect bait if he wants but he will find most people ignore him as hisec is a transit point with markets He can shoot MTU’s and provole the few less controlled players that he may find to react. He can awox if he joins a corp with the corp friendly fire set to yes, or do it in other space. He can gank a mining ship, Alpha’s can only use the frigate, but there are enough people around going for yield He can multibox using shortcuts and other things and gank freighters, don’t forget the fun mechanicsm of bumping. He can join a war deck group and ply the trade lanes shooting noob ships, shuttles and pods along with the odd dumb 0.0 player who does not check for wars. Oh the fun of it all, sets my pulse going with excitement… Sadly he missed out on hyperdunking which was suddenly allowed allowing certain players to make an absolute killing, he also missed all barges and exhumers having the tank of a wet paper bag for two and a half years after the destroyer DPS buff, all massive buffs to ganking. He will find however that there is not much low hanging fruit because most people in hisec are alts of 0.0 players and that this area of the game is so dead it is funny because what was hisec players gave up on the game completely and he like many of the bitter posters here will find himself desperately looking for an easy way to shoot stuff. He will be bumping soon like the rest… and blaming CCP and CCP are to blame, but not for the reasons he and the other posters here think… Downward trend in ganking of barges of course, well less people in hisec, less hisec mining (Rorquals anyone) and after the massive buff to destroyers and the loss of so many miners CCP finally gave options (after close to two and a half years of easy kills) to miners to use something that had a tank greater than a wet paper bag. So the little lambs find some miners too tough… I can confirm that a number of different ships get ganked, one of my corp mates lost a confessor in Uedama a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Kobran\_Ruthless\_Vaidrich](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kobran_ruthless_vaidrich/32/466355_2.png) [@Kobran\_Ruthless\_Vaidrich](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kobran_Ruthless_Vaidrich)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/73 "2017-10-02T21:56:47Z")
I’m not really sure why anyone thinks high sec needs to be dangerous. High sec is worthless anyway, if players want to live there in peace, let them. There is plenty of content in low, null and WH space. Maybe those who don’t like the safety of high sec should move out of it else instead of whining about it. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/74 "2017-10-03T05:43:19Z")
Or maybe those who don’t only care about isk (unlike you), who want to create content for others (unlike you) and those who know why it’s important (unlike you) simply want the game to be like it was, because that actually made it better. you consumer… ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/75 "2017-10-03T05:47:26Z")
You are funny! 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/76 "2017-10-03T06:05:01Z")
you think that’s funny? read this: it’s early in the morning and i have to take a break from drinking coffee. no coffee makes yellow be 😠. no coffee. 😠😠😠 i don’t even know how long it takes for tolerance to go down again, it’s a strong one and i drank it every day. it started giving me headaches. 😠😠😠 ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/77 "2017-10-03T11:10:37Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Fundamentally though, I disagree with you that Eve is a game where “safety is an illusion”. Eve, at least in highsec, is a game where risk is the illusion. Totally agree. This is the new player experience. The risk is a lie. > [@Solomar\_Espersei](#): > > unless you’re mining in an untanked Retriever like an idiot, it’s not all that dangerous at all It’s not dangerous even then, I am sad to tell you. It should be, but it just isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/asymmetrical-risk-and-the-need-for-escalation/28198/78 "2018-01-01T11:10:38Z")
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