# AT people get free pass on botting? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641 "2018-11-11T00:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johanna\_I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johanna_i/32/96574_2.png) [@Johanna\_I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johanna_I)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/41 "2018-11-12T01:34:21Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Whose prison. > Whose laws. > > How do you identify the real identity of the botter. > Is botting hacking? > > –Curious Gadget I do not want the bot user to go to prison. They are lazy and make the game not function for other player but they do not deserve it. If the bot software is hacking it could happen even if they feel not guilty. Whose laws. Not every country law against hacking? I am not the expert but I think if you follow the money you have a possibility to find builder. If there is the charge for making software that hacks EVE software the police will investigate. The police from country where the money is given to. I do not know if bot is hacking the software of CCP but may be. If only one judge think like this. What I say is this. If you can not catch the Queen you do not need to wait for month. Bot users and maker is greedy. Do not expect evil master mind. Punish quick and hard to protect players. If you can not catch Queen and you wait long and you do granma punish more bots will come. I read you again and I have to say more. May be CCP can not say the real identity of the botter because bot uses some thing to mask. This is only more argument to ban quick. Do bot maker earn million? I do not think so. Will they update bot every day to make bot user happy? I do not think so. Wait month to ban and they can work on bot again. Ban every day and they do not have the time to fix bot. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_JT\_Kirk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capn_jt_kirk/32/32384_2.png) [@Capn\_JT\_Kirk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capn_JT_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/42 "2018-11-12T03:38:56Z")
You are wasting time… ---
**Author:** ![Chamomile\_Tea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chamomile_tea/32/191686_2.png) [@Chamomile\_Tea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chamomile_Tea)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/43 "2018-11-12T05:48:58Z")
how do u know he is an at man and also as an at man, ccp does n o t give special treatment to at teams lmao ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/44 "2018-11-12T06:02:44Z")
> [@Chamomile\_Tea](#): > > how do u know he is an at man > > and also as an at man, ccp does n o t give special treatment to at teams lmao Looks like you accidentally used some punctuation. Careful with that. Next thing you know, you’ll capitalize something. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Chamomile\_Tea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chamomile_tea/32/191686_2.png) [@Chamomile\_Tea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chamomile_Tea)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/45 "2018-11-12T06:04:04Z")
its a scary thing ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/46 "2018-11-12T06:16:52Z")
> [@Johanna\_I](#): > > Yes I did that. Every week one time and the bot is still there. Then you have done what you can, bots aren’t banned instantly anyway they are normally done in waves ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/47 "2018-11-12T06:56:42Z")
so let me get this right. You think someone else is a market bot because they outbid you as soon as you put a bid up? by that logic i can only determine that you are also ‘botting’ as you appear to outbid another player as soon as they have put a bid up. ---
**Author:** ![Chamomile\_Tea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chamomile_tea/32/191686_2.png) [@Chamomile\_Tea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chamomile_Tea)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/48 "2018-11-12T07:05:13Z")
apparently they’re also an at alt 🗡 at men ---
**Author:** ![Johanna\_I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johanna_i/32/96574_2.png) [@Johanna\_I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johanna_I)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/49 "2018-11-12T12:39:03Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > so let me get this right. > > You think someone else is a market bot because they outbid you as soon as you put a bid up? > > by that logic i can only determine that you are also ‘botting’ as you appear to outbid another player as soon as they have put a bid up. You did not get that right. It is about contract not market. I am sorry for misunderstand. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna\_I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johanna_i/32/96574_2.png) [@Johanna\_I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johanna_I)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/50 "2018-11-12T12:40:16Z")
> [@Chamomile\_Tea](#): > > how do u know he is an at man > > and also as an at man, ccp does n o t give special treatment to at teams lmao He is member of VYDRA Reloaded. AT winner team. ---
**Author:** ![Square\_Root\_Negative-One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/square_root_negative-one/32/147850_2.png) [@Square\_Root\_Negative-One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Square_Root_Negative-One)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/51 "2018-11-12T13:39:19Z")
> [@Johanna\_I](#): > > Will they update bot every day to make bot user happy? I do not think so. > > Wait month to ban and they can work on bot again. > > Ban every day and they do not have the time to fix bot. That’s not really how it works, though. In software development, you generally don’t want to make too many changes to the code before testing. Otherwise, when it breaks, (assuming it’s not a blatant syntax error), you’ll lose track of what, exactly, caused the new issue. It’s slower… but to make one change, and then test it, it’ll often be easier to identify the cause of the error. Banning too frequently gives them invaluable information to work with - knowing how they were spotted, and what’s working, or not working, in evading detection. If they’re banned, we don’t want them to be able to infer how, or why. On top of the observation to get more evidence and bots, we really do want to do them in large, _silent_ batches, to keep their evolution to a minimum. It’s less harmful to let them bot for awhile longer, than to accidentally create “super bugs”, as an analogy to the problem of antibiotics. CCP can’t really win here. From a technical perspective, they want to be as silent and infrequent about it as possible… but in the meantime, they come across as indifferent or ignoring the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna\_I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johanna_i/32/96574_2.png) [@Johanna\_I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johanna_I)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/52 "2018-11-12T15:18:01Z")
> [@Square\_Root\_Negative-One](#): > > Banning too frequently gives them invaluable information to work with - knowing how they were spotted, and what’s working, or not working, in evading detection. If they’re banned, we don’t want them to be able to infer how, or why. > > On top of the observation to get more evidence and bots, we really do want to do them in large, _silent_ batches, to keep their evolution to a minimum. It’s less harmful to let them bot for awhile longer, than to accidentally create “super bugs”, as an analogy to the problem of antibiotics. > > CCP can’t really win here. From a technical perspective, they want to be as silent and infrequent about it as possible… but in the meantime, they come across as indifferent or ignoring the problem. This is may be true if bot makers are rich business with many ressource and worker. For EVE bot maker I can not say if this is true or not true. I do not know but I think may be they are not so rich. I think if bot user is banned they can not find out how it was identified as bot. Or not easy. First the bot user need to report back to bot maker that bot was banned. Do you think it happens always? Two the bot maker need to spend many time to read bot user log and understand what it did. Three the bot maker need to guess like a riddle how the CCP found out. Ban every one fast and single bot and create many ticket for bot maker. Too many to understand. Wait half year like now and bot maker can write update in this time. If bot user get punish quick and not so soft many will stop using bot. Less money for bot maker. Less time to work on fix. I understand your argument with super bugs but I do not know if this is realism. If bot user report back to bot maker it is never silent. Bot maker will know bot get found. Evolution of bot is not like bacteria evolution. Bot maker have to work so much and much more than much. I think this comparising think too much power of bot makers. They are not like evil master mind or evolution. They are only parasites who live because the CCP act so slow. I think CCP can win if they ban quick and hard. Player who use bot show no respect for game. Why be nice back? If ban quick and hard they will not tell friends how easy bot is. Few customers for bot maker less money to develop. I can not say if the CCP want to win this fight. Only I can say not one thing give me any more frustration for the game than passive against bot. Every day and even every hour there is bot near me in game this is same like Launcher is broken. Do I have to stop the game and wait until they ban before I start the play again? Then same when next bot appears because it take another half year? ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/53 "2018-11-12T16:05:30Z")
This thread will run the typical “OMG Bots!” storyline: Acusation made; sometimes data in the form of screen shot/ video included. Further anecdotal evidence presented by other players; sometimes more “proof”. A smattering of CCP loyalist/botters/naive players post counter arguments. Thread churns through at least a couple hundred posts. CCP remains silent. ISD shuts thread down or combines with an existing one. …and EVE continues the old status quo and don’t expect PA to make any changes. Sad, but probably a fair predictiction. ---
**Author:** ![Shai\_Hulud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shai_hulud/32/279251_2.png) [@Shai\_Hulud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shai_Hulud)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/54 "2018-11-12T17:18:40Z")
I once had a GM thank me for reporting a specific bot, adding that I had helped to reveal a web of such activity. The bot was gone for a couple weeks… but has been back since (years now) ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/55 "2018-11-12T21:25:58Z")
> [@Markus\_Reinhart](#): > > Besides that, even IF they did something to that botter they surely will not tell you, if you can’t understand why that is then we can’t help you, as you can’t be helped. Yet they can port botters directly to Yulai for people to kill…that doesn’t protect the botter’s identity or the identity of the alliance that condones botting. They have already proven that they don’t care if the players know who bots. All of that just shows that they are not doing anything vs bots in any great number. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Reinhart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_reinhart/32/133706_2.png) [@Markus\_Reinhart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Reinhart)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/56 "2018-11-12T22:21:46Z")
A lack of evidence can prove a great many things, if you really want it to. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna\_I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johanna_i/32/96574_2.png) [@Johanna\_I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johanna_I)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/57 "2018-11-12T23:00:38Z")
> [@Markus\_Reinhart](#): > > A lack of evidence can prove a great many things, if you really want it to. I accept your opinion but I do not think it is logic here. For the bot I described all the detail I can without trouble. You decide for yourself if this is evidence or not. You can freely make choice and have own opinion but this is same for every body. Other player see evidence in this and you do not. Okay. No problem. Logic is not to make proof here. You can not and I can not. If I want to joke you can not even proof that EVE exists. Try this. I think this is about the duck who make quak and look like duck. It may be duck. More this is about the CCP fail to make game functional. Game with bot is not functioning. Some say here it is better to watch and wait for long time. Okay. My opinion is different and I think ban quick and punish really. Bot maker is not evil master mind but probably normal people who do not have time to adapt fast. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/58 "2018-11-12T23:29:01Z")
CCP is under no obligation to give you feedback on the percentual detection rate of the botting software miscreants develop. Use the report button and hunt for the next one. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/59 "2018-11-13T05:00:33Z")
> [@Markus\_Reinhart](#): > > A lack of evidence can prove a great many things, if you really want it to. Correct… They gave us evidence that it is okay to know who is botting by bringing the bot to Yulai. Now that we have evidence. We should get a list of all know players who bot. Maybe give them a mark on their info. Kinda like steam does when someone is vac banned. ---
**Author:** ![zen-vexor03\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zen-vexor03_lsg/32/105571_2.png) [@zen-vexor03\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zen-vexor03_LSG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641/60 "2018-11-13T08:11:35Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > CCP is under no obligation to give you feedback on the percentual detection rate of the botting software miscreants develop. But soon will have to give feedback to PA, what will do then? Run to pub and hide behind beer ??? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/at-people-get-free-pass-on-botting/119641.md?page=4)