# Balance Updates Coming with Uprising! **URL:** \ **Category:** Balance and Mechanics\ **Tags:** feedback, official, balance\ **Created:** [October 25, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876 "2022-10-25T15:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/293 "2022-11-06T23:47:36Z")
bro im trying to get buffs in the notorious weak amarr line, like come on. no one flys these ships when stabbers and caracals exist. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/294 "2022-11-07T00:39:01Z")
> [@Toxic\_Raioin](#): > > No other race HAS to train gun. missiles and drones to make use of bonuses. lights are needed at some point, thats all. Minmatar have several ships you want to use heavy and medium drones with. Cyclone, Cyclone FI, Typhoon, TyFI and now the bellicose all benefit from a full set of mediums or heavies. As has been pointed out to you, if you go out in a ship with 0 SP in drones, you’re going to be at a disadvantage, even if your turret/missile skills are maxed. You must train drones with every race, bonuses or not, you cannot avoid training drones and every race benefits from having drones trained. If you want to fly amarr drone boats, focus your training on drone/missile skills. If you want to focus on lasers, focus on lasers/drones. You don’t need missile, laser and drone skills at 5 to be effective with every amarr ship. > [@Toxic\_Raioin](#): > > migh wanna check the killboard because the bellicose, which is getting a small buff fyi, out paces it by a wide margin. I don’t care about zkill, because the bellicose and arby fill slightly different functions that aren’t well shown in zkill. The bellicose can be a decent solo option or support ship in smaller engagements. Arbitrators will scare away a lot of fights because their TD/MGD’s are so strong. Thus you aren’t seeing those show up on zkill as often. Now, admittedly, i would say the bellicose is more popular, but thats not because the arbitrator is bad. The bellicose has an underdog persona that a lot of people underestimate because they see a TP bonus as a “useless bonus”, and they just think its a bad caracal. Bellicose aren’t scary and get fights, so people will fly them. Arbitrators are scary and people actively avoid them, especially if there is a gang with one in it. Solo arbitrators are less scary but can hard counter certain ships setups. The bellicose was mainly held back by fitting. I’m not sure if it really needed the extra drone, but its not really a huge buff that requires a mandatory arbitrator rework. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/295 "2022-11-07T01:12:39Z")
You only need a flight of lights for awhile for frigs, you dont need to train them to take advantage of the damage bonus like amarr/gals. if you need to train missiles for the drone boats how about a bonus to both for once??? This isnt a hard concept and your delusion about the abry scaring away fights is funny. It if was good, it would have more KB stats. plain and simple. You can say you dont care about zkill but zkill has the proof off whats killing and dying. Cant run from facts. Arby is ranked around 200. Stop being a nerd, buff Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/296 "2022-11-07T02:13:44Z")
You don’t need to train missiles to use the Arby effectively. You point, nuet, TD/MGD and don’t get hit while your teammates do the damage. Drone damage is just the icing on top. Same with the Blackbird, Bellicose and Celeste, you are there to shut them down and hold them. If that’s not what you want to do…pick a different ship. Stop trying to take ships away from their role and just have everything be DPS focused. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/297 "2022-11-07T02:33:48Z")
bonus td isn’t that important and since amarr has 3 weapon types vs 2. it should have a bonused missile drone boat and avoids the redundancy if you removed the ewar off of the Blackbird, Bellicose and Celeste. The game is clearly dps/alpha focuses anything else is largely wasted SP. People would complain if they buffed blaster range and removed cap reduction ?bonuses? from lasers, yet missiles and projectiles have been OP for over 10 years. Fix blasters. Fix Amarr. Fix Armor. I want laser and blaster meta for once. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/298 "2022-11-07T02:49:40Z")
Why remove Ewar at all? It has a place and is widely used in fleet battles, especially the t2 variants in both large scale PVP and blackops. TD is how you counter Alpha. If you want lassors and blasters, use them and use them on ships already bonused for them and if they need buffs, then buff those ships! Omens are very fun to fly and the big brother Zealot is a beast. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/299 "2022-11-07T03:03:33Z")
lmao what a troll. autos/Arty/missiles have been oppressive for a long ass time. TD is only used with armor comps and guess what sucks???! SLOW ARMOR TANKS WITH CAP SUCKING GUNS. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/300 "2022-11-07T03:14:43Z")
CCP isn’t going to just buff and completely change a role of something because you want it to be different. You need to have actual reasons and valid complaints. Clearly can’t teach this guy. I stop once the name calling occurs. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/301 "2022-11-07T04:28:16Z")
Bye. There are legitimate reasons to swap TD bonus out for missile, and its odd those who come to the arbys weak defense have no kb stats of said ship. if you say its good and useful you should be able to back it up, with stats. zkill says otherwise. There are also legitimate complaints about Amarr being the weakest by a country mile due to cap issues and cap reduction “bonuses”. The theory amarr are the great tanky bois hasnt materialized for 12 years now. Yea the retri, male and pala are great ships now but the t1 line is outclassed by and large by other races. ---
**Author:** ![Lagualera\_Acami](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lagualera_acami/32/447041_2.png) [@Lagualera\_Acami](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lagualera_Acami)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/302 "2022-11-07T07:02:21Z")
I have worries about new Changes to Security Status in the Uprising expansion. Especially for “Changing the security settings for Alpha accounts and removing the option to disable safety (“Safety red”)” I believe the smart bomb require to disable safety in high sec to active? They are really useful for against drones surrounding you. So Alphas can’t use smart Bombs in Hi sec anymore? ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/303 "2022-11-07T07:42:11Z")
> [@Toxic\_Raioin](#): > > bro im trying to get buffs in the notorious weak amarr line LOL, Amarr have some of the strongest ships in the game bro but they also require the highest player skill. Curse/Pilgrim boarders OP level and those are tracking disruptor / neut’s. Retribution/Slicer boarders OP levels of damage and projection. The Arbitrator would be welcomed on many small gang fleets its ability to increase the strength of your entire group is insane. And its a monster solo as Stitch has pointed out already. The sentinel pretty much gets 0 fights if you fly it because of its reputation, I would argue that amarr e-war is the scariest in game. My question to you is which Amarr ship’s do you want buffed and in which scenario do you think it deserves a buff and which bonus would you buff and why? > **[Moreinso | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/556175009/)** > > Moreinso: 1,624 ships destroyed and 633 ships lost. This guy seems to be quite skilled with the arbi if you want to try see why he is successful with it. > **[Stabber Fleet Issue | Real Kaifolom | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68580300/)** > > Real Kaifolom (Brutor Tribe) lost their Stabber Fleet Issue in Gulmorogod (Heimatar) Total Value: 83,757,011.90 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Suki\_Vokkonen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/suki_vokkonen/32/382402_2.png) [@Suki\_Vokkonen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Suki_Vokkonen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/304 "2022-11-07T12:01:06Z")
> [@CCP\_Aurora](#): > > […] due to the Muninn, Eagle and Cerberus having a strong combination of: > > - Extreme projection ranges > - Excellent survivabilty and tank (plus a temporary near-invulnerability) > - High Mobility (and relatively small sigs compared to BC / BS) > - _ **Strong application** _ Strong application ? The Cerberus ? I might still be noob, but i fail to see how range = application. Unless that bullet point was not attributated to the Cerberus ? > [@CCP\_Aurora](#): > > **Cerberus** > > - Maximum Targeting Range reduced from 95,000 to 60,000 m > - Removed: 10% bonus to missile maximum flight time > - Added Bonus: 7.5% bonus to shield booster amount > - Changed Bonus: 10% bonus to missile maximum velocity increased to 20% and changed to effect only Heavy Assault Missiles > - CPU increased from 520 to 535 > - Powergrid increased from 800 to 820 > > This makes the Cerberus’s bonuses now > > Caldari Cruiser bonuses per level: > > - 5.0% bonus to kinetic Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile damage > - 20.0% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile max velocity > > Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses per level: > > - 5.0% bonus to rapid Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire > - 7.5% bonus to shield booster amount > > Standard fleet fits for the Cerberus were often projecting to very long ranges with heavy missiles. By shifting the range bonuses to apply to HAMs only, we can give the cerberus a unique position as a long range HAM ship @CCP_Aurora You proudly make it long range HAM ship (though not as much as previously), but again, I don’t see how the Cerberus has a strong application. HAM are the worst for application, as far as my noob knowledge goes. Can you (or any vet that understand missiles application) explain? Is the Cerberus meant to shoot _ **only** _ big slow target in null block fleets, hence the _ **strong application** _ (on battleships) ? I’m very happy with the new shield booster amount bonus, so thank you for that (though, a set of Mid-Grade Crystals is “relatively” affordable). As I said in a previous rant in this thread, I utterly despise the kinetic damage bonus lock which makes the Cerberus (and many other stupid Caldari ships) the last choice anywhere kinetic is not the damage to use (when Amarr missile ships can shoot any damage type efficiently (same for Minmatar missile ships except very few exceptions (Talwar and Vigil Fleet issue)). Why are Caldari the worst with missiles damage ? Again, I’d rather see the kinetic damage bonus removed in favor of some application bonus. High dps (kinetic only…) with zero application net very low dps… Compromise. (starting point, I have no idea if the percentage numbers I put there are balanced) Caldari Cruiser bonuses per level: - 5.0% bonus to [some missile application] (explosion radius or explosion velocity ?), or 3% to explosion radius AND explosion velocity ? - 20.0% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile max velocity Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses per level: - 7.5% bonus to rapid Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire (or 6% ?) (or bonus to damage (any freakin’ type of damage) instead of rate of fire) - 5.0% bonus to shield booster amount (or 6% ?) Goal : Higher rate of fire (or damage (any type) to aleviate some of the kinetic dps loss, yet boost damage no matter the damage type. Lower shield booster amount as a compromise. Your thought ? Again, I don’t know enough about the application bonus to know what percentage would make sense and keep balance, you definitely know better. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/305 "2022-11-07T12:08:39Z")
> [@Suki\_Vokkonen](#): > > Strong application ? The Cerberus ? I might still be noob, but i fail to see how range = application. Rapid light cerbs hit tackle out the skies with close to 100% application from very far ranges, its broken. I would argue that rapid lights launcers should come with a negative missile speed penalty for using them, as anti tackle should be close range. ---
**Author:** ![Suki\_Vokkonen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/suki_vokkonen/32/382402_2.png) [@Suki\_Vokkonen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Suki_Vokkonen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/306 "2022-11-07T12:17:06Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Rapid light cerbs hit tackle out the skies with close to 100% application from very far ranges, its broken The range is adressed already with this update. Light missile application is not the fact of the Cerberus, but to light missiles themselves. If CCP makes the ship a HAM platform without application, this is bad. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/307 "2022-11-07T14:28:22Z")
Exactly that is why what I think what CCP have done is great it will still be a great ham ship and discourage people to fit rapid lights on it. Hopefully rapid lights get some type of decoupling from light missile ammo so that it can be balanced seperately some time along the line. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/308 "2022-11-07T15:19:36Z")
> [@Suki\_Vokkonen](#): > > Unless that bullet point was not attributated to the Cerberus ? Likely more attributed to the Muninn. The original Cerb would fallen under the “extreme projection ranges” > [@Suki\_Vokkonen](#): > > Is the Cerberus meant to shoot _ **only** _ big slow target in null block fleets, hence the _ **strong application** _ (on battleships) ? Caldari favor range as their racial flavor. Their hybrids and missiles almost always focus on range bonuses, with some ships also getting missile application bonuses (explosion radius). The balance point with the HACs is to give each a specific role within the class, that is: Cerb is most range/highest dps Muninn has lowest range, but best application Sac has moderate range, heavy armor tank If the cerb got an application bonus too, then it automatically invalidates the Muninn’s role or niche within the HAC line-up. Since it would also have a range bonus, thus outranging, applying better and doing more dps than the Muninn. Keep in mind, both the Muninn and Sac has 5 launchers, while the Cerb has 6. The Cerb also has the benefit of going with triple BCU, compared to the sac which can typically only fit 1 and if the Muninn is in an armor configuration, will likely only be able to fit one BCU as well. Shield Muninn can likely fit 2-3 BCU’s, but again, has no range. The kinetic lock is fine in a meta that heavily leans towards T2 minmatar. Even T1 shield/armor fits generally have a kinetic hole (shield focus on covering EM/Thermal holes, while armor omni tanks and doesn’t specifically tank kinetic). There is also a reason for the kinetic lock which relates to the opposing race’s T2 resistance layout. Every race’s T2 resist profile matches their “opposing” race’s damage profile. Minmatar T2 resist = high EM/Thermal resistances because Amarr lasers shoot EM/Thermal Amarr T2 resist = high explo/kin resistances because Minmatar Projectile T2 ammo shoots explo/kin Caldari T2 resist = high thermal/kin resistances because gallente primarily use hybrids Gallente T2 resist = high kin/thermal resistances **because caldari’s racial damage flavor is kinetic damage first and then thermal from hybrids** Giving Caldari ships no kinetic lock means they can bypass all T2 resistances against Gallente, which invalidates T2 resist pattern if it can just be by-passed with omni damage missile platforms. Caldari’s kinetic lock is typically paired with higher than average launcher options and the highest damage option when using kinetic in its class (drake, nighthawk, cerb, hawk etc). ---
**Author:** ![Wirr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wirr/32/272724_2.png) [@Wirr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wirr)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/309 "2022-11-07T21:08:27Z")
WTF should Cerberus with Shieldboost vs 200+ enemies? u want Huginn and Lachesis on Field, then Buff them, but dont nerv other all the time lol All to Missilesboots, what kind of stuff did you smoke? That’s really ridiculous what you’re doing there. can we give back our invested projectile skills ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/310 "2022-11-07T22:16:48Z")
> [@Wirr](#): > > can we give back our invested projectile skills The projectile skills that worked on the Muninn work on every other projectile ship/platform of the same class. Use a vagabond, hurricane or sleip. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/311 "2022-11-07T23:37:41Z")
The arby is a sexy ship I have to admit. I haven’t yet flown a curse or pilgrim yet, but I want to. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Raioin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_raioin/32/297720_2.png) [@Toxic\_Raioin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Raioin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876/312 "2022-11-08T00:05:54Z")
having to train into t2 to get a good armarr ship is a utter fail. lasers and blasters are the only ones that have to deal with real draw backs, not theoretical ones like caldari/mins. Amarr so great its attack cruiser is the worst in the game. Brilliant. Fix Amarr, Fix Armor, Fix Blasters. Fix Gallente. One once for god sake. ![amarr duh best everrr](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/e/3/3e3b71d24761830ef1bdf2ef0c795fc51cdaadc5.png) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balance-updates-coming-with-uprising/381876.md?page=16)