# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/181 "2018-08-10T09:51:57Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > arguments like “add more fitting options for freighters” (which would drive up the total damage output required to kill a freighter, etc.), they all work on the basis that it’s perfectly fine for the “bad guys” to need more characters, but not necessary at all for freighter pilots to gain help from even just 1 friend. It would not. You again don’t know what you are talking about. > **[Bowhead | Saeryn Shyvess | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/71659929/)** > > Saeryn Shyvess (Center for Advanced Studies) lost their Bowhead in Niarja (Domain). Final Blow by Ms Swarm (Autism Cartel) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 3,397,856,003.18 ISK > **[Bowhead | Mourn LeBlade | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/71415870/)** > > Mourn LeBlade (Jupiter Roughriders) lost their Bowhead in Uedama (The Citadel). Final Blow by Jonas Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Catalyst. Total Value: 6,442,272,970.96 ISK > **[Bowhead | KROMVEL FRIMEN | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/70503184/)** > > KROMVEL FRIMEN (ShipClub Community) lost their Bowhead in Niarja (Domain). Final Blow by KaMiKaDzExD (Advanced Suicide Comrades) flying in a Brutix. Total Value: 11,294,311,220.46 ISK CODE already brings these numbers to kill freighters with similar HP. It would not change a thing. And neither would time limited bumping as people in the past did not even need to bump in order to gank a freighter. They just attacked them with the same number of pilots that are now being used to gank them. Only one thing has changed: CFC and CODE established a botting aspect to ganking and that aspect requires bumping to work. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/182 "2018-08-10T09:52:01Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I will keep remarking until you biomass Why would I biomass? That’s idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/183 "2018-08-10T09:53:26Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It’s the argument that is used all the time in the forum by those that want CCP to take more control of their risk, So? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The usual whine threads are stupid because they’re thinly veiled demands for 100% safety and 100% profit for carebears. Rather than use the already-available tools, available even to solo players, they insist that they need more safety and refuse to use common-sense options like not putting excessive value in a single ship. In this case the complaint is correct however: bumping should not be a permanent state with no possible resolution for a solo player. If the bumping player has no ability to make a genuine attack, doing more than annoying their victim out of sheer spite, then eventually the inconvenience should end (much like being able to mute an annoying person on voice chat). A 5-minute timer that makes you automatically enter warp at the end accomplishes the goal of preventing trolls from perma-bumping a player just to be obnoxious while doing nothing to provide safety to the idiots who overload their floating loot crates and autopilot obliviously into gank systems. A competent and organized gank squad can still bump the target to prevent their escape and then deliver a fatal attack. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/184 "2018-08-10T09:53:31Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > It would not. You again don’t know what you are talking about. So adding more fitting options wouldn’t allow higher EHP? ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/185 "2018-08-10T09:53:31Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Why would I biomass? That’s idiotic. The same can be said about your argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/186 "2018-08-10T09:54:49Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > The same can be said about your argumentation. Yeah sure. It’s easy to trade insults. Rarely useful, but you don’t seem to ever make a reasonable argument, so it’s no surprise that it often ends up at insults. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/187 "2018-08-10T09:55:16Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So adding more fitting options wouldn’t allow higher EHP? No, have you lived under a rock? When CCP gave freighters more fitting options, the reduced the base HP of the ship. The Bowhead has fittings and the same HP and EHP as a tanked freighter. That will happen again when they give freighters fittings like the Bowhead. That’s a historic fact. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/188 "2018-08-10T09:56:49Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Yeah sure. It’s easy to trade insults. Rarely useful, but you don’t seem to ever make a reasonable argument, so it’s no surprise that it often ends up at insults. Sorry, not sorry, but when I throw all my reasonable and factually proven arguments against your brickwall of ignorance and incompetence, I let myself lose temper sometimes to spice things up for me. You ignore every factual and reasonable argument that I bring forth, hence I take the liberties of calling out your incompetence however I like to. Even when I insult you, I still keep using factually proven and reasonable arguments, while you do nothing but spouting biased and false CFCODE propaganda. And you spam every thread with your factually wrong assumptions and arguments to drive actually correct and relevant arguments out of the view of potential readers so that they only see your rambling. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/189 "2018-08-10T09:59:01Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > So? For every bleeding heart that whines for more safety for them and less for others, there’s a counter argument. Those counter views and opinions are just as valid to express. It doesn’t invalidate the counter arguments. They are all ok and nothing I write is more important than what someone else writes that differs to my view. By the same respect, my view is no less important than those arguments either. They are all valid and as these threads are always polarised, they are often extreme views. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/190 "2018-08-10T09:59:59Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I let myself lose temper sometimes Over a forum thread? That’s a bit sad really, but more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/191 "2018-08-10T10:01:39Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Over a forum thread? That’s a bit sad really, but more power to you. Over the sheer amount of ignorance and incompetence that is concentrated in some people. More power to you, though, so that I don’t have to deal with more people like that elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/192 "2018-08-10T10:02:31Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Over the sheer amount of ignorance and incompetence that is concentrated in some people. Like claiming it only takes 6 ships to gank a fully tanked freighter. Like claiming that providing fitting options to freighters won’t allow them to have increased EHP? ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/193 "2018-08-10T10:04:51Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Like claiming it only takes 6 ships to gank a fully tanked freighter. Like claiming that providing fitting options to freighters won’t allow them to have increased EHP? That is what you claim. I have never claimed that. I claimed that you do not need 20 people or “massive fleets” by showing you fully tanked freighters that die easily to 11 characters. You are lying again like in the respective thread to flood threads with more useless rabble. The Bowhead with its fitting capabilities is proof that this is the case. For the rest: See above. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/194 "2018-08-10T10:05:28Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I have never claimed that Yep you did: > [@Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/68): > > And yet: Speaks for itself right? ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/195 "2018-08-10T10:06:27Z")
Conveniently your screenshot omit your quote where you say you need 20 people or “massive fleets”. What a coincidence, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/196 "2018-08-10T10:08:24Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Conveniently your screenshot omit your quote where you say you need 20 people or “massive fleets”. What a coincidence, isn’t it? Actually, go quote where I wrote that a massive fleet was needed? You won’t be able to, because I’ve never written that. And in relation to the 20 ships statement, I think I was pretty specific with that being true for some situations. I never claimed all. So go ahead, go quote what I wrote. Here, I think this one right: > [@Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/55): > > I don’t ever recall claiming massive fleets are required. Fleets yes. But stupid, antitanked, lazy freighter pilots are far easier to gank than full tanked, smart ones. That’s why there are so few fully tanked gank victims. They aren’t gankable with 6 characters. In some cases it’s upwards of 20 characters to gank them. So yeah, there is a huge EHP barrier to overcome for gankers, if only freighter pilots fly smart. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/197 "2018-08-10T10:12:52Z")
![Forums_ScipiosIncompetence2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/9/79b9361aa2e8bc600eb75b38829f78afe7bf5c9e.png) No, you were not specific that it’s for some. Your sentence indicates that you think all fully tanked freighters need more than 20 chars to gank them. Which is factually wrong and you keep lying about it. ![Forums_ScipiosIncompetence](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/9/e907539c1ed044e85505af49b61aec75e2ac0d1b.png) For reference what I am talking about and what Scipio keeps distorting so that it suits his liar narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/198 "2018-08-10T10:14:02Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > No, you were not specific that it’s for some. It even says it right in the part you’ve screen shot. _They aren’t gankable with 6 characters. In some cases it’s upwards of 20 characters to gank them._ ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/199 "2018-08-10T10:16:16Z")
Right, my bad. The point is, however, that you do not need more than 20 chars at all in the main gank systems to gank even tanked freighters. In no circumstances. They do not pose massive EHP barriers for small groups to overcome. They only pose massive EHP barriers for botting armies to overcome. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/200 "2018-08-10T10:28:00Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Right, my bad. The point is, however, that you do not need more than 20 chars at all in the main gank systems to gank even tanked freighters. In no circumstances. Rubbish in no circumstances. Jita is one of the main gank systems (1.5% of all ganks occur in Jita, by contrast Uedama is the most frequent gank system at 8.8% of ganks). In Jita, it is absolutely necessary in some situations to need upwards of 20 gank ships. In other cases, even in Uedama, upwards of 20 ships may be required. For example, if the gank fleet is all catalysts, it will be more than 20 ships to gank a fully tanked Obelisk. Even with bombers, I think it might be above 20, but would need to do the calculations to confirm. So absolutely, in some situations upwards of 20 gank ships are required to affect a gank, even in the main gank systems. The most common gank fleet size is 11. But that is mostly against antitanked and completely untanked freighters. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=11)