# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/321 "2018-08-13T01:02:48Z")
So that’s a no you haven’t looked at any gank killmails? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/322 "2018-08-13T01:03:20Z")
Tackle is the act of holding a ship in place and preventing it from warping. What is it that bumping is doing again? If all you have to bring to the table is a childish argument based on semantics, try harder. Let me help you little buddy: > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > tackling requires a web, scram, point, bubble or anything similar One more time in case you are slow: > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > anything similar ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/323 "2018-08-13T01:04:12Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > So that’s a no you haven’t looked at any gank killmails? I am assuming you think there is a point here relevant to the conversation, rather than relevant to ganking? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/324 "2018-08-13T01:04:42Z")
you can still warp if the bumper misses a bump how dense are you? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/325 "2018-08-13T01:04:58Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > We are talking about what happens when the gank fleet isn’t there in a reasonable time frame, which makes the bumper the idiot. Except that the bumper knows how long till the fleet will arrive. He is almost surely talking to the FC. and given some of these cargo values holding a freighter for awhile makes quite a bit of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/326 "2018-08-13T01:05:21Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > He is almost surely talking to the FC or he’s the FC 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/327 "2018-08-13T01:05:45Z")
Yes. Because these guys are creating the situation they wind up in. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/328 "2018-08-13T01:05:59Z")
That too. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/329 "2018-08-13T01:07:33Z")
Then it should be super easy for them to manage it in a reasonable time frame. 5 minutes is far, far more than reasonable. Any time beyond the base align time of the ship should be considered a generous gift if your tackle does not include a point. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/330 "2018-08-13T01:10:56Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Then it should be super easy for them to manage it in a reasonable time frame. you can go try, go see for yourself how ‘easy’ all of it is XD oh wait, you’d need friends for that XD ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/331 "2018-08-13T01:11:03Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > and given some of these cargo values holding a freighter for awhile makes quite a bit of sense. Then use a point. or better yet, make your case? Why. Why should more profit alter how long a ship can be held by tackle? Are you implying that a point should get longer or hold better based on the value of the ship it’s targeted on? If not, why the difference here? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/332 "2018-08-13T01:12:18Z")
I don’t know man, I can cross a few systems and get in place in under 5 minutes if I’m already out in space waiting to go, instead of afk and eating dinner. This is the standard you are holding your target to after all. His escort needs to be present in space with him at the gate, not 4 jumps away eating dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/333 "2018-08-13T01:18:06Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Then use a point. > > or better yet, make your case? Why. Why should more profit alter how long a ship can be held by tackle? Are you implying that a point should get longer or hold better based on the value of the ship it’s targeted on? If not, why the difference here? Time is ISK…so the more ISK there is to be had, the more reasonable it is to hold a freighter longer. Seriously, I have never seen so much white knighting for people who have literally created the situation they are in. This guy, > **[Obelisk | Natali SU Rew | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/71832052/)** > > Natali SU Rew (Imperial Shipment) lost their Obelisk in Josameto (The Forge). Final Blow by Jack Fizzleblade (Reversing Entropy.) flying in a Hound. Total Value: 36,000,465,409.03 ISK He took on an absolute massive amount of risk. Now Mike is saying that via a module that risk should be mitigated. Why? Why shouldn’t this guy face the consequences of his own foolishness? He created that situation. The bumper and gank fleet merely took advantage of the situation this guy created. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/334 "2018-08-13T01:26:16Z")
You are still trying to deflect from the conversation. It’s unfortunate, because I’m happy to be convinced. The point of using a more nimble ship in your fleet to provide a warp point nearly did it, but it’s still too much in control of the bumper. I digress. Ruleset of High Sec is specifically set up to limit aggression, particularly the timeframe that aggression can happen in, thus Concord response times differing depending on security rating of a given system. Self Defense against that aggression is specifically allowed in high sec, even if it is in response to provocation. Tackle does not vary in it’s effects based on target value, which seems to be what you are trying to argue. I do understand your point that taking on extra risk should prompt you to better prepare for potential problems, but the gank is not what’s under discussion here. However, the suggestion at hand does not assist the guy who goes out alone with no backup available. It only levels the playing field back to the circumstances that would exist if the method of tackle was one of the usual modules. It still favors the ganker in many respects, such as requiring the escort of the target to mount the module rather than the tackler themselves. It preserves a reasonable amount of time to get a gank fleet on station, rather than holding them to the usual amount of time that would be allowed if the tackle was one of the usual modules. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/335 "2018-08-13T01:38:24Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Tackle does not vary in it’s effects based on target value, which seems to be what you are trying to argue. No I am not making any such argument. First off, bumping is not tackling in that it does not affect the ships warp engines. Second, my point is that the amount of time one will spend bumping is proportional to the cargo value. After all, if you are bumping one ship you cannot bump another, so by taking “too long” to bump a ship other freighter with even more valuable cargo can slip by. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > I do understand your point that taking on extra risk should prompt you to better prepare for potential problems, but the gank is not what’s under discussion here. There you go again wanting to isolate things. The cargo value is indeed directly related to why the freighter is being bumped. Look through the killboard and you’ll not find many empty freighters that were ganked. So the cargo value is a fundamental element in why ships get bumped. _You_ are the one who is furiously trying to deflect on this point Why should that guy with 38 billion in his oblelisk get a break after a mere 5 minutes? What he did was amazingly foolish. How long was he bumped? No idea, but I have zero sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/336 "2018-08-13T01:41:17Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > No I am not making any such argument. First off, bumping is not tackling in that it does not affect the ships warp engines. Second, my point is that the amount of time one will spend bumping is proportional to the cargo value. After all, if you are bumping one ship you cannot bump another, so by taking “too long” to bump a ship other freighter with even more valuable cargo can slip by. Now you are the one trying the childish semantics. What does a point achieve? What does Bumping achieve? Yeah, you don’t even have to change the wording of the cut/paste response. In both cases, it’s tackling— the act of holding a ship in place and especially out of warp. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/337 "2018-08-13T01:45:07Z")
There is a reason why using a point draws CONCORD and bumping does not. That you are being deliberately obtuse on this point (no pun intended) is not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/338 "2018-08-13T01:46:42Z")
If they do the same thing, Im not sure where you are going with that. Bumping is an emergent loophole. I’m wiling to accept that and even accommodate it, thus a 5 minute window, assuming the escort that makes it possible is right there and starts immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/339 "2018-08-13T02:09:44Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Bumping is an emergent loophole. I’m wiling to accept that and even accommodate it, thus a 5 minute window, assuming the escort that makes it possible is right there and starts immediately. No. Nobody should get a change in mechanics to allow them to be exempt from the consequences of their foolishness. If you want to argue excessive bumping simply to annoy is a problem, fine. But this…this is just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/340 "2018-08-13T03:03:25Z")
So… just to point out, there’s already a thread for this. > [@Bumping](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bumping/85395): > > Has CCP considered making bumping an attack? I mean, in what universe would it be perfectly acceptable to fly your ship into another multiple times without damage to either ship and without it being a criminal act? One bump should get you a warning. Two or more bumps should make you a criminal that is punishable by Concord. Surely this makes sense. And a lot of these same arguments are going in both. Including a clip from Fanfest 2016 [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/7/a/f7aa158f70274b5798965edfee0c2a3e12b9a725.jpeg "EVE Fanfest 2016 - Ships and Modules") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc1ndlzFHl4&t=51m42s) But… that video is 2 years old. And they haven’t done anything with it yet. So either they haven’t gotten around to it, or they changed their minds. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=18)