# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/341 "2018-08-13T03:46:56Z")
This is the opposite of everything you are arguing. It still requires escorts and preparation. The people you claim need to explode are helped not at all. They still have to bring a prepared escort, which you claim they absolutely will not do, so it does not affect any of your ganker buddies. The only people it helps are the people who already do as you demand. You should have no beef. It absolutely matches every criteria you set forth. ---
**Author:** ![holdmybeer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/holdmybeer/32/147512_2.png) [@holdmybeer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/holdmybeer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/342 "2018-08-13T05:54:37Z")
I read the whole thread and came into the conclusion that @Mike_Voidstar should cry less. Also bumping seems to be in a good place right now. There are more ways to prevent it, than there is to be a victim of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/343 "2018-08-13T05:56:44Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > That’s not free…you have to give up whatever benefits those SP would have provided. That some people think that trade is acceptable does not make having an Omega character free. They do not provide any benefits because the skill itself is useless to what you do. I, for instance, train Target Spectrum thingy, which has no purpose for my character and my character has nothing else to train that is of use to it. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > They are paying ISK…which means they are giving up all the other things they could have spent that ISK on. Seriously, opportunity cost is a thing. They do not pay any ISK that they do not generate with the Injector sale. Any additional ISK and profit ISK from the injector sale is spent on something else. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The forgone opportunities with your ISK you got from SP farming or the benefits of the SP had you not extracted them for said ISK. You do not maintain your account with opportunity cost. Or since when does CCP accept opportunity dollars/euros. The OC is there, yes, but it has little to nothing to do with the account maintenance cost of a character that is fully trained and does what it is supposed to do. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > They are still paying, just in a more round-about manner. Yes, 0 ISK and 0 RL currency to CCP because someone else “donates” game time to them. The character accepting this “donation” has 0 account maintenance cost that would impact his virtual or RL wallet. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > So with SP farming there is still a cost. Without SP farming you’d train skills that you deemed worthwhile and would provide some benefits. But with SP you forgo those benefits. That is the cost, those forgone benefits. No, without SP farming, you would stop training because your ganker character is done training. You should know that best. The ganker characters do not have a lot of things to train and are done after a couple of months if you are generous. You do not forego anything. And do not take this from me, take this from your ganker comrade Ima Wreck You, who said just this. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/344 "2018-08-13T06:02:00Z")
I had heard illiteracy was on the rise. I think you just proved it. If bumping was harmless and not being used as tackle, I’d agree. If bumping had a time limit and never went on for unreasonable lengths of time without incurring the normal penalties for initiating aggression in the area of space it occurred in, I’d agree. But… Bumping _is_ being used as tackle, and _is_ being kept up for unreasonable time frames. It is _not_ harmless, it _is_ costing people… If it was any other mechanic in high sec it would result in criminal flagging or concord intervention. I’m not in favor of that, but some middle ground where a reasonable time limit is set until the bumping ends should be open for discussion. I’m sure that the people against discussing it stand to make billions has nothing to do with their stubbornness. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/346 "2018-08-13T10:50:39Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Bumping _is_ being used as tackle Bumping =/= tackle Never was, never will Stop trying to void this thread with your ignorance ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/347 "2018-08-13T11:14:33Z")
According to your own definition, it is. You first say that bumping is a form of tackling, and later say it’s not. stop trying to void this thread with your confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/348 "2018-08-13T11:38:09Z")
Quote me This is the 4th time I say bumping isn’t tackling I even pointed out what tackling is the second time I said it Stop being so obtuse XD ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/349 "2018-08-13T11:54:51Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > tackling requires a web, scram, point, bubble or anything similar a ship is “something similar” to a web. You thus affirmed that bumping was tackling. Thank you. Just saying : tackling is the EFFECT of preventing someone to warp. Thus, bumping is a form of tackling, though it does not require a module - eg rats, which don’t have modules, can still tackle you. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/350 "2018-08-13T12:13:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > ship is “something similar” to a web. Uh What? A ship is not a Web. … Thanks for confirming you’re just here to spew nonsense and argue without any legit arguments 😂😂😂😅😅 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/351 "2018-08-13T12:36:52Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > A ship is not a Web. … And I did not say it was. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/352 "2018-08-13T12:47:49Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > a ship is “something similar” to a web. This is pretty much what you’re implying lmao Just get out tbh, you yet to contribute to whatever discussion there was before you showed up with your theories ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/353 "2018-08-13T14:23:04Z")
Good morning all. I see this train wreck of a thread is still going. Makes me want to bump some AFK miners for a few hours… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/354 "2018-08-13T14:31:50Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > This is pretty much what you’re implying lmao not al all. You should inject reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/355 "2018-08-13T14:39:08Z")
Here, let me help enlighten some folks… [https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Tackle](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Tackle) > [@](#): > > **Tackling** is the act of pinning down a ship so that it cannot escape." [https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Advanced\_Piloting\_Techniques#Bumping](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Advanced_Piloting_Techniques#Bumping) > [@](#): > > Bumps may keep a slowly-aligning ship from entering warp indefinitely. Bumping is a “legal” form of tackling someone, preventing them from escaping, without provoking a Concord response. However… I do agree there are ways around it. And the folks who are crying about being bumped too much in this thread, just need to make friends and ask for help. If you get a few Webs on a Freighter, any amount of movement in the right direction will be enough to enter warp. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/356 "2018-08-13T14:45:40Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > However… I do agree there are ways around it. And the folks who are crying about being bumped too much in this thread, just need to make friends and ask for help. If you get a few Webs on a Freighter, any amount of movement in the right direction will be enough to enter warp. The proposed solution still requires friends, it’s just not itself subject to bumping. Instead, if you want to keep holding a ship past the spool up you will have to either kill the escort or use a point. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/357 "2018-08-13T14:57:18Z")
Or keep bumping since it’s legal 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/358 "2018-08-13T15:10:07Z")
Yes, yes little buddy. That’s true right now. Do try and remember that’s what the conversation is about though. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/359 "2018-08-13T15:32:03Z")
You really do not understand the concept of opportunity cost. Everything you wrote is wrong. Find an economist IRL and have him explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/360 "2018-08-13T16:21:10Z")
Yep. Teckos is right on this one. There is a cost. Now, an argument can be made about the relative cost on either side. Hauler fleet must Plex: 1 account for the freighter itself. You can’t get around this if we are talking about bumping freighters. Does not matter who’s wallet the 15 dollars came from, it cost a subscription to get that freighter in space. OPTIONAL: escort accounts. You need an escort, but they can be alpha’s if you don’t mind them being bad at their job. Gank Fleet must Plex: Nothing. All accounts can be alpha. Most of them do not suffer much, if any, effectiveness from being alpha. OPTIONAL: Freighter to scoop the loot. This is the only position that benefits greatly for a paid subscription, though the DPS of the Gank Fleet benefits a little. However, the DPS benefits of not being alpha are easily compensated for with a few more alpha accounts, while the ability to scoop the loot is not nearly so easily made up with transports, and may not be possible depending on what was dropped. The rest boils down into a relativistic morass of time spent training and ISK value of the ships, all of which varies greatly from instance to instance in both real cost and relative value that is just part of playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/361 "2018-08-13T17:44:09Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > This is the opposite of everything you are arguing. > > It still requires escorts and preparation. > > The people you claim need to explode are helped not at all. They still have to bring a prepared escort, which you claim they absolutely will not do, so it does not affect any of your ganker buddies. > > The only people it helps are the people who already do as you demand. > > You should have no beef. It absolutely matches every criteria you set forth. Being prepared is not having some guy in a noob ship or whatever that can let a foolish and imprudent player get out of trouble. What do you think a reasonable escort fleet should look like for Mr. 38 billion In My Cargo Hold above? One dude in an ibis? Sure it is better than nothing, but it is still ridiculous. So, using Mr. 38 Billion In My Cargo Hold as an example… He should have scout say in an interceptor. He should have a webber, maybe 2. He should have at least a half dozen logistics ships. I’d want maybe 4-6 tornadoes. A nice dozen, if not more, taloses. A command ship to provide boosts. Implants…good ones. After all you are, for _reasons_, moving 38 billion and taking on a mother fecking ton of risk here. I’d have the scout…well scout. The webbers would stay with the freighter. The tornadoes would go in first and if the scout missed a bumping ship the tornadoes simply turn it into a wreck. Yes, they’ll get CONCORDED, but FFS I’m moving 38 billion in a freighter. If that doesn’t work then the logistics ships get within rep range and the taloses burn down the bumping ship(s). Moving 38 billion is **_EXTREMELY RISKY_**. As such risk mitigation measures should be _ **HIGH** _. Not just some doofus in a single ship. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Yep. Teckos is right on this one. There is a cost. > > Now, an argument can be made about the relative cost on either side. Yes there is a cost, however it is irrelevant to much of this discussion. The issue is risk. Now most people make the following and incorrect statement: The risk must be balanced. No! Look at Mr. I Have 38 Billion in My Cargo Hold. He was _ **accepting** _ risk. A massive, massive amount of risk. He was being very, very foolish and imprudent. He made a bad decision. Why should CCP come along an foist similar levels of risk on players who are _ **NOT** _ being imprudent? As a general rule in game in IRL never punish people who are prudent and rational. It is completely stupid and blinkered. And that a freighter pilot must have an Omega account is irrelevant. This is a choice. If the player finds having an Omega account is of greater benefit than the costs…who cares? He is getting that stream of benefits that more than offsets the costs. This point, while true, is irrelevant. That gankers may be able to get by with an Alpha account is also irrelevant for the same reasons. This whole “cost argument” is utter Bravo Sierra. It is nothing more than a distraction. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=19)