# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/482 "2018-08-17T16:55:04Z")
And you do see the stupidity of your post right? Teckos: There is zero evidence for X. Mike: Oh, so you are saying Y never happens? Teckos: Does it hurt to be this stupid? Mike: No. Teckos: It should. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/483 "2018-08-17T16:55:16Z")
So you are saying there is a mechanical limit to someone bumping for an extended period of time? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/484 "2018-08-17T16:55:55Z")
No I am not saying that. Stop going full retard. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/485 "2018-08-17T16:57:05Z")
Teckos: There is no evidence of this off topic event. Mike, Oh so you are saying On Topic Event never happens? Teckos: Does it hurt to be this stupid? Mike: You would know better than I. Teckos: It should, but personal experience tells me otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/486 "2018-08-17T16:57:35Z")
Then start discussing the actual topic. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/487 "2018-08-17T17:10:58Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yes, I want the gank fleet waiting out timers to have time to wait out their timers then go kill the moron. Being a moron should never be encouraged. Those timers are part of the consequences for their actions. They should be making meaningful decisions, like which thing they want to gank, based on those consequences, not having their hand held so they don’t have to deal with the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/488 "2018-08-17T17:18:21Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Those being ganked are part of the consequences for their actions Ftfy Lol ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/489 "2018-08-17T17:23:22Z")
I have. Scipio has. To the extent there is a problem it is trivial. Huge amounts of value crosses regional boundaries every month. We can see it in the MERs. Bumping/ganking can be addressed with existing tools, mechanics and people in game. It is only a problem when players refuse to use those tools and behave imprudently. Devs have more important things to work on than a module to save 1 out of every 1,000 freighters where the player was imprudent and foolish. To be clear here since you lie so much… It is my position that the greater the cargo value the greater the escort fleet should be. This has ■■■■ all to do with mechanics, but behavior so you take that “so you are saying mechanics should change based on crago value” and shove it up your ass. There is more to this game than just mechanics and if you engage in risky behavior any strategies to mitigate that risk should be proportional to the risk. More risk, more risk mitigation. You clearly disagree with this. You clearly think risk mitigation should be made easier and much of it should come from CCP. We see it in the AFK cloaking thread and now here. I would also guess if we tried to measure bumping time the mean would be less than an hour. Probably less than 30 minutes. And the median even lower. If I had to pick a number out of thin air I would guess around 10 minutes from first bump to dead freighter. Is this a problem? No. Bumping rarely happens when taking into account the amounts of cargo value and number of freighters moving around. And the vast majority of the time it is aimed at players who made bad decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/490 "2018-08-17T17:24:49Z")
Yes and you want to influence that decision making process via mechanics. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/491 "2018-08-17T17:24:54Z")
Teckos: More stuff unrelated to topic Mike: … Umm…Ok, but did you have anything relevant to the topic to say? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/492 "2018-08-17T17:28:45Z")
WTF? Seriously… You are ok with one side having free reign to ignore the consequences for their actions, while the other side has to scrupulously examine every iota of minutia of their actions and be held accountable not only for their own actions but the ignored consequences for their opponents. Ganker: We got this one, have to wait on the next… just bump him till whenever. Hauler: They got that one. They got me. They will get the next guy. Sure would be nice if they suffered some of their own consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/493 "2018-08-17T17:39:32Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Seriously… You are ok with one side having free reign to ignore the consequences for their actions, while the other side has to scrupulously examine every iota of minutia of their actions and be held accountable not only for their own actions but the ignored consequences for their opponents. This is Bravo Sierra. Gankers scrupulously examine every element of a gank. Ganking is really just math now. Gankers have refined the process completely. Through trial-and-error they have gotten ganking to an extremely efficient process. The difference is the players you are white knighting for have not done similar work. You have it exactly upside down. Probably because you have never ganked and hate any and all PvP. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Ganker: We got this one, have to wait on the next… just bump him till whenever. Nope. It is very clear how long they will wait. Dock up. Get in your next ship. When timers are down we go. Your portrayal of the process is that of an ignoramus who has never ganked. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Hauler: They got that one. They got me. They will get the next guy. Sure would be nice if they suffered some of their own consequences. Oh yes. The balance the risk/consequences Bravo Sierra. This further demonstrates your ignorance. When you take on massive risk you are risking massive consequences. By definition. Gankers aren’t taking on massive risk so no massive consequences. Don’t like this? Then don’t be stupid and take on massive risk. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/494 "2018-08-17T17:42:30Z")
So it’s fine if they use unlimited tackle in an area of space designed to limit aggression to ignore the consequences of their aggression. Good to know. I mean, they could just remove the timers if they were not supposed to be a factor, right? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/495 "2018-08-17T17:45:46Z")
The problem is the timers actually help the person being bumped. Well so long as it isn’t you. The have more time to try and find a way out. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/496 "2018-08-17T17:48:33Z")
If only the mechanics allowed for it. Huh… we have actually got you to sort of admit that the OP had a point worth making there. You just don’t see it as a problem that the chance of finding a way out of it is virtually null under the current mechanics. You are OK with the mechanics as they are favoring the gankers with unlimited time instead of the limits they were supposed to have under the ruleset of High Sec. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/497 "2018-08-17T17:55:45Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > If only the mechanics allowed for it. They do, you just refuse to use those options. Ganking the bumper, using a ceptor, bumping the bumper, etc. And of course not being such a juicy target to begin with. You just want a lazy slobs solution. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > You just don’t see it as a problem that the chance of finding a way out of it is virtually null under the current mechanics. Really? You know this how? Have done an intensive study of bumping and ganks? Oh…wait, we know you haven’t done that. To do that you might have to participate in ganks. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > You are OK with the mechanics as they are favoring the gankers with unlimited time instead of the limits they were supposed to have under the ruleset of High Sec. I don’t think this is a problem worth wasting Dev time on. If they did decide to engage in such a wasteful use of their resources (from my perspective) I would be fine with a timer around 15 minutes to maybe 30 minutes for reasons already explained that you refuse to even consider. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/498 "2018-08-17T18:54:01Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > If I had to pick a number out of thin air I would guess around 10 minutes from first bump to dead freighter. This is still an unacceptable solution. 10 minutes of average stalemate time, with a significant number taking longer than that, is an eternity of sitting there waiting for something to happen. If you can’t execute a kill faster than that then you don’t deserve to get it. And I notice that all of your talk of risk and good choices is focused on the freighter, not the ganker. Why shouldn’t the gankers be punished for their poor choice to engage one freighter and not wait for a more profitable one to arrive? Why are they entitled to hold the second freighter for 10-15 minutes or more to clear their flags and arrange another gank? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/499 "2018-08-17T19:09:06Z")
I don’t care. Don’t be a stupid freighter pilot then there is no problem. As for punishing the gankers go do it. Go gank the bumping ship. You impose a loss on them and their big fat whale gets away. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/500 "2018-08-17T19:15:26Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I don’t care. Don’t be a stupid freighter pilot then there is no problem. Don’t be a stupid gank pilot then there is no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/501 "2018-08-17T19:21:15Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > As for punishing the gankers go do it. Go gank the bumping ship. You impose a loss on them and their big fat whale gets away. But that would require effort from him 😂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=24) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=26)