# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/543 "2018-08-20T10:10:10Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yes and they all use bumping. Waiting out a timer is not an indicator of incompetence…it is a product of the game mechanics. Since they can bump till the end of the timer it is actually an example of prudence and reason, IMO. Currently everyone uses bumping. Remove long-term bumping and you separate the gankers into two groups: the competent and organized ones will continue to get kills because they are capable of immediately engaging and destroying a freighter, long before the bump immunity timer runs out, and the incompetent ones who fumble around and fail to kill their target before it warps out. > Not at all. Using the mechanic in its current form is not necessarily indicative of incompetence. But the mechanic you insist on is pandering to the incompetents who can’t win any other way. You are arguing that excess-value freighters dying is so important that any change, even one that only hurts bad players, that prevents them from dying is unacceptable. That the most important criteria in making the decision is maximizing freighter destruction, regardless of who is doing it or how it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/544 "2018-08-20T20:25:04Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > ou got a guy that runs a corp dedicated to bumping who freely admits his members sometimes bump people for more than 30 minutes because they think it’s funny. Not to gank or anything else. Look, Haulers don’t have any right to warp anywhere. If they don’t have a mining permit, if they don’t pay the ransom, if they dont give me all of their isk, they deserve to get bumped until downtime. The fact that a hauler hasnt given me all of their assets, is proof that they’re just being greedy and trying to sneak by without paying their dues. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/545 "2018-08-20T20:36:33Z")
While amusing on a player level, this is why we are discussing mechanics. Thank you, however, as your words completely counter the “Nobody does this” argument. If it happens even once, and can be repeated, it’s a mechanical problem. Your words and presumably your actions support that it has not only happened at least once, but that you and your corpmates are dedicated to it happening over and over again. Furthermore, even in the absence of a gank fleet, you use it for extortion. This is fine— but in high sec aggression of that kind is supposed to be time limited unless you wardec, get kill rights, or get them to flag themselves as criminals. Probably another couple of ways I’m forgetting right now. With the proposed solution, I have good news… the Escort Ship carrying the module will no doubt be much easier to gank than the freighter, and you have an obvious 5 minute spool up time to get that job accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/546 "2018-08-20T20:38:28Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > we are discussing mechanics. bumping doesnt hurt anyone by itself > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > but in high sec aggression its not aggression. No one is being hurt ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/547 "2018-08-20T20:41:08Z")
Don’t be special. You are using bumping as tackle. Tackling is aggression in every other form it takes. It was already demonstrated in this thread that wasting time can cost a hauler significantly. You are just going over already covered ground. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/548 "2018-08-20T20:41:46Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > You are using bumping as tackle. Tackling is aggression in every other form it takes. > > It was already demonstrated in this thread that wasting time can cost a hauler significantly. > > You are just going over already covered ground. bumping doesnt stop any ship’s ability to use its warp drive. Its not the same as tackle. If you are bumped, you can still warp away. Its not the same as tackle. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/549 "2018-08-20T20:43:53Z")
Tackle is holding a ship in place, especially out of warp. Tackle isn’t just about using points or bubbles. Bumping is holding a ship out of warp. It is Tackle. Singing a Mantra that it isn’t won’t change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/550 "2018-08-20T20:45:12Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Bumping is holding a ship out of warp. It is Tackle. You can still warp. You understand how a sphere has 360 degree to work with right. Bumping only prevents warping to certain vector directions. It is not holding it in place. A freighter can warp while being bumped. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/551 "2018-08-20T20:47:26Z")
I understand how it works. Clearly so do you. Stop being special, or disingenuous, or flat out dishonest, take your pick. > [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](#): > > You pit me against your average hauler and his escort, and I will bump them until downtime. You already stated that you can keep a ship out of warp until downtime. You are using bumping as unlimited tackle. This is a mechanical problem that needs fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/552 "2018-08-20T20:54:37Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > You already stated that you can keep a ship out of warp until downtime. You are using bumping as unlimited tackle. This is a mechanical problem that needs fixed. Its not a mechanical problem that needs to be fixed. I’m quite literally the person with the highest amount of hours spent bumping in game. I take bumping and change it into an art form. I’m a modern day Da Vinci when it comes to making content with bumping. If bumping is only being taken advantage of by less than 10 people in the game, then it is not a problem that needs balancing. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/553 "2018-08-20T21:08:38Z")
Well, you may want to seek help for that enlarged Ego you got there. Point is that if it’s possible to circumvent high sec rules so completely, it’s a mechanical balance problem. That is true no matter if 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000 do it. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/554 "2018-08-20T21:32:17Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Well, you may want to seek help for that enlarged Ego you got there. > > Point is that if it’s possible to circumvent high sec rules so completely, it’s a mechanical balance problem. > > That is true no matter if 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000 do it. I can circumvent most high sec rules by just talking to people. Bumping is emergent gameplay. Bumping is forever. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/555 "2018-08-20T21:43:47Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Point is that if it’s possible to circumvent high sec rules so completely, it’s a mechanical balance problem No rules are circumvented, highsec or otherwise. Quote which rule exactly is circumvented by bumping? ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/556 "2018-08-20T21:46:55Z")
I never thought of bumping as being used as a form of unlimited tackle without gaining CONCORD Aggro in High Sec. Nice. Since the freighter or ship in question does not have a counter mechanism to break the bump/warp scrambling mechanic that would otherwise draw CONCORD to the target that is being restricted from entering warp the same that a warp scrambler does, then CCP needs to either make bumping an exploit and bannable offense or give the freighters a 3 minute warp timer that would still allow a gank to place. Gankers should not be allowed to perma bump or perma restrict a ship from entering warp in High Sec without a criminal status being applied. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/557 "2018-08-20T21:56:39Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](#): > > If gankers have to use 20+ accounts to kill a single freighter They don’t. They just need one bumper account, one DPS account. a polarized vindicator has 2.1 k dps before implants. They do it with 20 alts because it’s cheaper. It’s just greed, not a need. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/558 "2018-08-20T21:57:36Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > They don’t. They just need one bumper account, one DPS account. a polarized vindicator has 2.1 k dps before implants. > > They do it with 20 alts because it’s cheaper. It’s just greed, not a need. you cant gank a freighter with a single polarized vindi ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/559 "2018-08-20T22:00:19Z")
not but you can with a single DPS account(plus the bumper). ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/560 "2018-08-20T22:00:29Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > They don’t. They just need one bumper account, one DPS account. a polarized vindicator has 2.1 k dps before implants. Even applying a 26 second timer for CONCORD to arrive, that is an output of 55000 damage. There is no reality, since the hyperdunking days, that a single ship can gank a freighter. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/561 "2018-08-20T22:01:13Z")
we are talking about accounts, not about ships. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/562 "2018-08-20T22:01:51Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > not but you can with a single DPS account(plus the bumper). thats not ganking [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=29)