# Balancing Hi-Sec Freighter Bump Mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363 "2018-08-04T20:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/603 "2018-08-21T01:15:25Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Translation: Unless the fiery finger of God himself writes it on a wall somewhere, you won’t accept it. Unless it agrees with you. ■■■■■■■■ Mike and you know it. I don’t value my own opinions higher than any alternative either. I’ve never been any different. And it is nothing to do with some “fiery finger of god”. There are plenty of arguments that can be validated through direct quotes from CCP, data collectable through the API, Killmails, records from reputable player groups (eg. Red Frog Freight, EVE-Uni, etc.), from video records, etc. There is a lot of different ways to validate an opinion. But an unvalidated opinion, whether mine, your’s or someone else’s, is just that. Unvalidated and therefore not reliable in that state. Doesn’t matter whether it agrees or disagrees with my own view (it doesn’t necessarily disagree), it just isn’t anything beyond opinion at this stage and you do not know that it is absolutely the reason the mechanic is the way it is. If you do, then link where you have validated that view. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/604 "2018-08-21T02:16:25Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > it just isn’t anything beyond opinion So one moment you say opinions are important and then you say fact are important. FACT : bumping is used to prevent someone’s freighter from warping off FACT : preventing someone from warping off is called tackling, and there are modules DEDICATED to this, and only this, that incur concord reaction to the aggression. so FACT : bumping is an aggression by the game logic. Now the game engine CAN’T guess who is responsible, so it can’t handle this case - and thus does not. But this is a technical limitation. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > he was trying to be all arcane and stuff like he knew some deep secret. I was merely correcting people who like to exaggerate. It was so obvious to me I did not understand why they were so dishonest. Actually they just could not read my words correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/605 "2018-08-21T02:19:00Z")
people can still warp if they’re bumped XD they just need someone in the direction they’re being bumped you don’t have to be the sharpest crayon to figure that out… :facepalm: ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/606 "2018-08-21T02:28:07Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So one moment you say opinions are important and then you say fact are important. I wouldn’t explain my view that way, no. In general, opinions are equal and not better than any alternative opinion in the absence of validation. CCPs opinions however help them make decisions on design and development, so in these types of discussions, their opinion is the only one that truly matters. The facts you think you are presenting aren’t, especially the last one. On the first one, it’s not a full explanation. Bumping affects alignment to specific warp locations. You can still warp to any other warpable point you are aligned to. Bumping is not aggression by the game logic at all. If it was, there would be a crimewatch flag for it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/607 "2018-08-21T02:59:07Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > , it’s not a full explanation. It effectively is used to prevent people from warping. You calling for a full explanation is dishonest. It’s just troll to make people waste time with your crap arguments. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Bumping is not aggression by the game logic at all. If it was, there would be a crimewatch flag for it. nope. That’s why we say it is a technical limitation. Just like tidi. In an ideal world, we would have no limit ; game engine and game logic would be in sync. In reality, we have limitations complexity and computing power, so game logic and game engine are different. In an ideal world, we would not have tidi, guns would not go through the asteroids, everybody would be happy, there would be no bots. Reality is just a bit more complex. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/608 "2018-08-21T04:08:57Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > But the mechanic you insist on is pandering to the incompetents who can’t win any other way. No. It can be used by incompetents and by competent gank groups. A competent gank group waiting out a 10 minute timer that is highly competent could look like an incompetent gank group that is not waiting out a timer, but just has crap players. Further, at this stage, I’d say ganking is a highly refined “art”. That is most groups doing it know precisely what they are doing. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > While amusing on a player level, this is why we are discussing mechanics. No we aren’t. You want to limit it to just mechanics because looking at the underlying behavior is not conducive to your narrative. This is just another example of your dishonesty. > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > You are using bumping as tackle. Tackling is aggression in every other form it takes. But oddly enough it does not elicit any kind of timer. And hasn’t for over a decade. 🤔 > [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](#): > > You can still warp. You understand how a sphere has 360 degree to work with right. Bumping only prevents warping to certain vector directions. It is not holding it in place. A freighter can warp while being bumped. This is way, way to subtle for Mike. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You only need two accounts to gank a freigther. Nope. What ship is going to do enough DPS before CONCORD arrives? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/609 "2018-08-21T04:42:55Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It effectively is used to prevent people from warping. > You calling for a full explanation is dishonest. It’s just troll to make people waste time with your crap arguments. Here we go. Don’t go full tilt Anderson. You normally do, but try to resist. You can’t call it a fact, if it isn’t a fact. That’s your ■■■■■■■■ dishonesty. No one else’s. If you want to claim a fact, then be factual. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/610 "2018-08-21T04:47:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > nope. > That’s why we say it is a technical limitation. You say it’s a technical limitation because that allows your opinion of the game design to magically suit your argument. Yet if you had to explain the technical limitation exactly, I’m almost certain that you couldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/611 "2018-08-21T11:57:07Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I’d say ganking is a highly refined “art”. Something that you repeat the same over time is not art, it’s a technique. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Yet if you had to explain the technical limitation exactly, I already explained it. You are only affirming I could not because it suits your opinion - yet I did it. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/612 "2018-08-21T12:15:50Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > yet I did it. No you didn’t at all. You said game logic and computing power are different. That is not a detailed outline of the technical limitation. That is just a general statement and even there you have presented nothing to demonstrate that this is even a critical issue in the bump mechanic. That’s far from detailing the technical limitation you claim exists here. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/613 "2018-08-21T12:23:01Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > No you didn’t at all. I did it. You are too dishonest to read it, but I did. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That’s far from detailing the technical limitation you claim exists here. I did not use the word “detailing” so keep your interpretation for yourself. All your posts were you quote me contain things made up by yourself. That’s why I say you are dishonest. Your only effort is in trolling, not in communication. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > You said game logic and computing power are different. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That is just a general statement No, that is an explanation why your reasoning, which I quoted, is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/614 "2018-08-21T12:32:22Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I did it. You are too dishonest to read it, but I did. Rubbish. You can’t even be honest with yourself. There is not a single post where you’ve explained the technical limitation. Not one. It’s nothing but invalidated opinion, and you can’t validate it, because the information isn’t publicly available. You are just full of ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Castiel351](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/castiel351/32/89011_2.png) [@Castiel351](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Castiel351)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/615 "2018-08-21T12:54:35Z")
So… 1. Any arguement that stipulates the only way to safely undock a freighter requires a 2nd account is missing the point. 2. The amount or value of cargo is absolutely irrelevant when dealing with the mechanic. 3. Bumping is in every sense of the word a point, scram or tackle which technically form of aggression but can’t be addressed becuase it would really cause problems on undocks or cyno bridging for example. 4. The module does seem like a reasonable fix to balancing the mechanics without breaking other aspects of the game. It especially doesnt impair the “organized ganking” groups. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/616 "2018-08-21T13:01:29Z")
> [@Castiel351](#): > > Any arguement that stipulates the only way to safely undock a freighter requires a 2nd account is missing the point. It’s fine that Carriers are not a solo play ship. It’s fine that Dreadnaughts are not a solo play ship. It’s fine that fax machines are not a solo play ship. It’s fine that super carriers are not a solo play ship. It’s fine that Titans are not a solo play ship. It’s fine that BLOPs is not solo play. And it’s perfectly fine that freighter pilots that want to manage their risk, use multiple characters if they want to. It’s the most effective way. What’s the fundamental problem that some ships are in general, more effective when there is group play involved? ---
**Author:** ![Castiel351](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/castiel351/32/89011_2.png) [@Castiel351](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Castiel351)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/617 "2018-08-21T13:02:46Z")
And all of these ships can defend themselves? Sorry your point is lost. They have the ability to break tackle. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/618 "2018-08-21T13:05:05Z")
> [@Castiel351](#): > > The module does seem like a reasonable fix to balancing the mechanics without breaking other aspects of the game. It especially doesnt impair the “organized ganking” groups. It would. The only people who gank consistantly without horribly failing are veteran gankers. You throw more nerfs like this around and you’re making a much more difficult barrier for entry for newer ganking groups. The amount of freighter ganks that actually occur in the game is tiny. > [@Castiel351](#): > > Any arguement that stipulates the only way to safely undock a freighter requires a 2nd account is missing the point. Really. Is it missing the point? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/619 "2018-08-21T13:07:11Z")
We can totally give freighter mega smartbombs to break tackle I’m down for that lol ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/620 "2018-08-21T13:09:01Z")
> [@Castiel351](#): > > And all of these ships can defend themselves? Sorry your point is lost. They have the ability to break tackle. So what? That doesn’t explain why it is wrong that a 2nd character/friend is the best way to fly a freighter. It’s a choice to fly a freighter. No one is forced into it. If they were, I’d totally agree with you and say it is wrong. But it is totally a choice. It’s not a choice for the other side though. They have to have multiple ships to even think of taking on a freighter. By your own standard, that is wrong? Gankers should be able to kill Freighters solo? ---
**Author:** ![Castiel351](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/castiel351/32/89011_2.png) [@Castiel351](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Castiel351)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/621 "2018-08-21T13:16:41Z")
Several years back I was at the charity dinner with hilmar getting drunk and he asked me what I do in the game and I said I’m not really sure right now becuase you nerfed input automation on isboxer and I really enjoyed managing my hulk fleet, running my rorq, hauler and scouts across 3 screens, it was like my little symphony and now it’s a monster click fest and just not as fun and he said “you know I’m really not a fan of any gameplay that requires you to have multiple accounts to enjoy…” ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/423311_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363/622 "2018-08-21T13:20:00Z")
> [@Castiel351](#): > > Several years back I was at the charity dinner with hilmar getting drunk and he asked me what I do in the game and I said I’m not really sure right now becuase you nerfed input automation on isboxer and I really enjoyed managing my hulk fleet, running my rorq, hauler and scouts across 3 screens, it was like my little symphony and now it’s a monster click fest and just not as fun and he said “you know I’m really not a fan of any gameplay that requires you to have multiple accounts to enjoy…” Buff ganking, increase catalyst dps to 25,000 so that gankers dont need multiple accounts to enjoy what they do. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/balancing-hi-sec-freighter-bump-mechanics/95363.md?page=32)