# Bastions of War **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 18, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348 "2021-02-18T17:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/182 "2021-02-24T19:44:59Z")
i saw a video of a 3k dps golem doing pve amarr need some luv come on ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/183 "2021-02-24T19:46:24Z")
Oh yes, I know that, been around for quite a few years. Last time it was the Legion’s turn, now it’'s the Paladin. This one struck me as making completely no sense. Like someone else posted, it wasn’t as if the Paladin was ahead of the rest before the changes. But let’s be realistic. How many players fly marauders ? And how many of those fly Amarr marauders ? Is that contingent important enough to listen to ? We both know: _probably not_, especially since we bark up the tree in the wrong forest, and not on reddit where the inner circle lives. And I can always sell it at current elevated prices to someone who will use the implant set you suggest, and get me another marauder. ---
**Author:** ![Spitfire1938](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spitfire1938/32/474648_2.png) [@Spitfire1938](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spitfire1938)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/184 "2021-02-24T19:51:13Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > You made my day brighter again. You’re welcome My problem with people complaining about nerfs to their fancy battleships is I am a Widow owner who has had to deal with the amazing ECM patch back in 2018 which forced my beautiful Widow to be a blops bridger. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/185 "2021-02-24T19:55:07Z")
Would you say the Redeemer is that much better, sir ? Mine hasn’t left dock to go in harm’s way in the last 5 years or so ? Shame, coz every related skill was maxed out a long time ago, haha. So you have a problem with people complaining about nerfs because your particular blops was nerfed to insignificance ? I don’t. I try to stand by them if their arguments are founded. I’ll support you when you try to get the Widow fixed, because that too was a dumb nerf. Something always falls off the table, but it doesn’t seem to be a rotation. Too often it’s Amarr, story of my life in Eve 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/186 "2021-02-24T19:59:29Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > But let’s be realistic. How many players fly marauders ? And how many of those fly Amarr marauders ? Is that contingent important enough to listen to ? Well its all done based on CCP’s metrics, they might have seen that there wasn’t an inherent weakness in the ship and rectified that, we don’t always get to see all the use cases so its possible someone somewhere was making use of the ship in an unintended way, we will never really know All players are important but generally speaking changes are made based on CCP’s goals even if that means a few people will be annoyed at the nerfs and never forget them, not that i hold 16 years worth of grudges against them or anything 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/187 "2021-02-24T20:05:51Z")
Yeah, someone has to pay the price. It was the paladin’s owners this time. Does ccp have a buy-back program for the ships they nerf ? 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Spitfire1938](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spitfire1938/32/474648_2.png) [@Spitfire1938](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spitfire1938)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/188 "2021-02-24T20:12:48Z")
Well you can kinda solve your problem with the paladin with a set of relatively cheap implants. If I could buy some implants to fix my widow I’d do it in a heart beat. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/189 "2021-02-24T20:22:32Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i saw a video of a 3k dps golem doing pve > amarr need some luv > come on Make a video of yourself doing faction warfare in a Paladin. I predict it will be great. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/190 "2021-02-24T20:28:51Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Make a video of yourself doing faction warfare in a Paladin. I predict it will be great. lol im in the poor side right now ☹ but i have a video doing PVE in a paladin from 6 years ago on youtube 😛 and btw im asking for amarr love just because… if i did a LOT of missions in a paladin 6 years ago i bet i would CRUSH all EVE pve content in a paladin in this current version ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/191 "2021-02-24T21:02:27Z")
well, yes, if I want to cough up the isk etc for a better recharge time but still abysmal cap pool. The other solution was to fully cross-train on subcaps and all weapons, which I did fortunately, so I don’t need to buy implants but can invest the isk in a better ship instead. Not everyone can pick that second solution, of course, so fighting to defend a particular one on occasion is fair. There’s no obvious reason to have a clear underdog when they do passes like this, yet somehow there’s always a clear loser. ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/192 "2021-02-24T21:04:41Z")
Best to train all to 5. Then when Paladin gets nerfed you switch to golem, this is what i did 😃 I have all 4 marauders and all skills to 5. Problem is ccp said that they’ll be improving paladin to make it so it will be stable with same fit as it was before, now they nerfed it instead of fixing the new RoF. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/193 "2021-02-24T22:34:53Z")
> [@Spc\_One](#): > > Problem is **ccp said that they’ll be improving paladin to make it so it will be stable with same fit as it was before** , now they nerfed it instead of fixing the new RoF. Where did they say this, exactly? Source? ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/194 "2021-02-24T22:47:08Z")
From reddit: - We’ll look at Kronos and Paladin cap and make sure it works with high RoF Paladin doesn’t work with high RoF. ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/195 "2021-02-25T01:29:01Z")
I’m sensing a lot of “well I don’t like the ship any way and will never fly so who cares, lets make some bad illogical lol arguments on the forums about how it’s fine” going on. There’s the “yeah but you can use cap implants” people, kinda forgetting that the other Marauders can (and probably will) use tanking implants, leaving the Paladin behind. There’s the “CCP knows what its doing so I’m sure they did the calculations” crowd, where normally I see nothing but “CCP are idiots” so in a way that’s refreshing, shall we say, but I do get the feeling it’s a bit disingenuous. Even more so as CCP changed the bonuses last minute showing they shoot from the hip and don’t really have an answer. You can’t just double the rate of fire on a whole ship class and then look at the _one_ that uses the most cap for its weapons and go “ah well, it is what it is”. Whichever way you look at it The Paladin is worse off compared to the other 3. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/196 "2021-02-25T02:46:19Z")
Welcome to CCProblemsoving, the Laziest Place On Earth! ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/197 "2021-02-25T03:16:17Z")
> [@Spc\_One](#): > > Paladin doesn’t work with high RoF. Sure it does. There are great ways to fit the ship with the new changes. The complaint is that the ship didn’t get buffed as much as the other marauders. If the Paladin was the only ship that changed you all would be giddy with glee. When the T3 Cruiser rebalance happened only one ship truly came out on top and people adapted (or complained) and CCP just carried on. Adapt or die. Vargur lost it’s ROF bonus. I don’t see anyone complaining about that here. ---
**Author:** ![Barbara\_Rogers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/barbara_rogers/32/242501_2.png) [@Barbara\_Rogers](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Barbara_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/198 "2021-02-25T03:43:56Z")
> [@Wanda\_Fayne](#): > > Vargur lost it’s ROF bonus. I don’t see anyone complaining about that here Because it got a huge damage buff to compensate perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/199 "2021-02-25T06:08:18Z")
> [@Wanda\_Fayne](#): > > Vargur lost it’s ROF bonus. I don’t see anyone complaining about that here. The RoF buff was not removed and replaced with something that merely ‘compensates’ for a direct nerf to the ship. It was replaced by another functional bonus. Paladin’s cap bonus was not, it was overall a nerf. And the Paladin was not out of balance relative to other marauders and we all know battleships in general are not strong overall. ---
**Author:** ![Barbara\_Rogers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/barbara_rogers/32/242501_2.png) [@Barbara\_Rogers](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Barbara_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/200 "2021-02-25T06:43:38Z")
So I’m gonna be an optimist here and say the Paladin nerf was just a mistake, my guess is that the cap bonus was meant to be moved to the base hull stats and it got missed. The changes CCP made all point to trying to apply a flat buff to all the marauders through the bastion module without changing their individual characteristics, it makes no sense why they’d single the Paladin out from that. If you compare the Kronos to the Paladin - they’re both armour hulls with the same slot layout, aside from the weapons (blasters vs lazers) they have the same cap needs. Since the patch (after hull bonuses) T2 neutron blaster activation costs 12.74gj vs 18gj for t2 mega pulse lazers, both have the same ROF but the Kronos now has more cap and a higher recharge rate (8k to 7.5k and 7.6gj/s to 7.5gj/s). That has to be a mistake - surely?! If not, ok, adapt or die etc. etc. but I’d love to know why. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/201 "2021-02-25T07:42:02Z")
> [@Wanda\_Fayne](#): > > The complaint is that the ship didn’t get buffed as much as the other marauders Nope. The complaint is that the ship got the same overall buffs as the others but was then taken away its ammo and tank - which is capacitor charge if you’ve ever flown any Amarr ships. > [@Xanthellus](#): > > Even more so as CCP changed the bonuses last minute showing they shoot from the hip and don’t really have an answer. Very much this. Not confidence inspiring. We went from 60 to 90 to 30 seconds cycle time over a span of 48 hrs, lol. Talk about swinging…That they even flew the ships for a few hours. using it for its intended purposes at least, is highly unlikely. Looks like the request for a carrot was so loud that something had to be done, pronto, and a “why-not-do-something-with-marauders-I-can-deliver-that-fast” hiccup during a very recent meeting. > [@Barbara\_Rogers](#): > > I’d love to know why. If they don’t embed the capacitor capacity in the Paladin’s hull, via whatever trait to keep it available for balancing in future, it’s because they do not want to. Or because of the “not invented here” syndrome, since we are the ones suggesting it. As to reasons, have they _ever_ given any (numeric) reasons behind changes ? We, the players, are the ones discussing with numbers. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=11)