# Bastions of War **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 18, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348 "2021-02-18T17:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ghazbaran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghazbaran/32/497605_2.png) [@Ghazbaran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghazbaran)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/41 "2021-02-18T23:08:16Z")
Just jumping in here to see if it was worth getting back into game for Marauders… Seems like it won’t. I have Maruaders 5 and all supporting skills at 5. Piloted a Golem. Had fun with it but was not efficient at all. Me and my friend would rat together, him in his Vargur and me in my golem. It was the perfect tag team. I used torps and took care of BS and he took care of everything smaller. That being said, sinking so much isk, skillpoints and money in subscription time for such little reward killed it and the game for me. Capitals were cheaper and did better, and a correctly fit naga could literally be more cost effective. 50% RoF increase sounded like a dream until I saw the bastion cycle time increase. Saying “extending Marauders’ commitment to a single position in exchange for their newfound power.” is simply ignorant. If I put up a capital ship sized investment on a T2 fit BS hull, I would expect it to at least have the benefits of a T2 hull. There is just so much that could be done with this ship. If I have to put the ship on a 90 second cycle, at least increase my Tractor beam to 100km so I have something to do while I finish my cycle. It’s a step in the right direction but the thought process was flawed. Thinking that they needed to increase the drawbacks to be able to give them a bigger punch was completely ignorant of how bad the ships were implemented in the first place. Tight fittings, bad tanks(pre-bastion) and just not enough DPS for the isk (Mind you the golem is a beast in raw numbers but application was just awful.) CCP do better. ---
**Author:** ![Ghazbaran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghazbaran/32/497605_2.png) [@Ghazbaran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghazbaran)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/42 "2021-02-18T23:20:16Z")
Back in the day you could fit a cyno to any ship. You could even fit a starter ship if you’re skills were high enough and avoid giving anybody that wanted to pop you a killmail. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/43 "2021-02-18T23:44:25Z")
> [@Ghazbaran](#): > > 50% RoF increase sounded like a dream until I saw the bastion cycle time increase. Saying “extending Marauders’ commitment to a single position in exchange for their newfound power.” is simply ignorant. I rarely even used bastion in my golem doing missions, and it already had the ability to deal with smaller targets using precision cruise missiles, so neither the RoF nor the cycle time really affect me > [@Ghazbaran](#): > > Tight fittings, bad tanks(pre-bastion) and just not enough DPS for the isk (Mind you the golem is a beast in raw numbers but application was just awful.) We must be flying 2 very different ships, never had issues with any of that, but i don’t bother using torps on it and i have a TP fit with a tank that generally doesn’t even need bastion to run missions The issues you have could be that you’re trying to use the ship incorrectly And i have no idea what your fitting issue is, i seem to have 5k PG and 249 CPU spare on my mission golem, even with T2 torps fitted, granted i don’t bother with a prop mod, never really needed it for mission running, cruise missiles have ample range, i have 130km range with precision and 194km with fury ---
**Author:** ![Ghazbaran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghazbaran/32/497605_2.png) [@Ghazbaran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghazbaran)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/44 "2021-02-19T00:16:47Z")
That’s your problem right there. You’re using Cruise missiles. I wasn’t doing missions. I was in Nullsec ratting. Where the real danger is. So fits had to be better. Not using Bastion was not an option and you were always chasing higher ticks and efficiancy. I wasn’t a mission runner. Thats playing on easy mode. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/45 "2021-02-19T00:20:07Z")
Like i said, i have the same PG spare even with T2 torps fitted, even with an MWD and an XL booster i still have ample powergrid spare, do you not have AWU5? ---
**Author:** ![Ghazbaran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghazbaran/32/497605_2.png) [@Ghazbaran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghazbaran)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/46 "2021-02-19T00:25:19Z")
Can’t compare a mission fit to a Nullsec fit. Not in the same Category. My skills are maxed, it just doesn’t afford the same fitting options as less expensive hulls and that is a fact. You might want to act like golem is fine; I bet it is if you only mission run. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/47 "2021-02-19T00:27:37Z")
By all means link me your fit, pretty sure its not going to have fitting issues unless you’re doing something terrible like trying to run multiple boosters or multiple prop mods I’ve got perfect fitting skills myself lets see how it compares 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dakker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dakker/32/312433_2.png) [@dakker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dakker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/48 "2021-02-19T01:28:55Z")
I ran some pyfa fun. nothing like 4b of imaginary funds. But with the changes that’s gonna be 3500dps [Golem, Lvl 4 Missions Torps] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Large Micro Jump Drive Republic Fleet Target Painter Pithum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener Bastion Module I [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo [Empty High slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Hornet II x5 Warrior II x5 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/49 "2021-02-19T01:36:22Z")
How are you figuring 3500 DPS? Its only a 50% RoF bonus ---
**Author:** ![dakker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dakker/32/312433_2.png) [@dakker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dakker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/50 "2021-02-19T01:45:29Z")
1700dps against the “Ideal Target in Pyfa” x2 (double the rate of fire) + 100dps of drones I know actual applied dps will likely be different, but that’s still a lot of damage. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/51 "2021-02-19T01:53:54Z")
The RoF will be stacking penalised though no? ---
**Author:** ![dakker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dakker/32/312433_2.png) [@dakker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dakker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/52 "2021-02-19T01:59:04Z")
Yes’ish. It cuts the ROF in half from the current already reduced value. But that is still x2 the dps of the current output. (checking my vargur on singularity, the ROF was 4.34s not bastioned, while bastion was active it became 2.17s) edited: a number i mistyped ---
**Author:** ![Loradan\_Illstari](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loradan_illstari/32/248107_2.png) [@Loradan\_Illstari](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loradan_Illstari)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/53 "2021-02-19T05:07:19Z")
The 90s bastion almost makes bastion useless. The last thing a battleship sized hull needs is “further commitment”. They already do everything a smaller hull does slower, often much slower, and marauders tend to be even less maneuverable than their T1 counterparts. You might be able to make a 70s bastion usable, but 90 is GG no-re. ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_Arsten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/josh_arsten/32/485945_2.png) [@Josh\_Arsten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Josh_Arsten)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 5:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/54 "2021-02-19T05:16:40Z")
At the risk of seeming too picky, CCP’s verbiage is in conflict with itself. At one point in the post it says: > and this will soon **double** the rate of fire for all large weapons while active Later in the post it says: > - Bastion now increases the rate of fire for all large weapons by 50% So which is it? Doubling would imply a 100% increase, not 50%. The devil is in the details! ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/55 "2021-02-19T05:56:36Z")
There’s no conflict, you just need to understand EVE math. Rate of fire increases are applied reductions in cycle time. A “50% increased rate of fire” bonus is applied as a 50% reduction in cycle time. So, for example, a weapon with a cycle time of 5 seconds is reduced by 50% to 2.5 seconds. The result is that shots per second is doubled. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/56 "2021-02-19T06:00:25Z")
Thats why people make jokes about CCP logic. 50% reduction in cycle time is actually not 50% increased rate of fire, but 100% increased. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 6:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/57 "2021-02-19T06:23:41Z")
And those were good times. Much better than they are now. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/58 "2021-02-19T07:44:09Z")
> [@Magalaus\_Shardani](#): > > CCP tries to buff marauders but accidentally nerfs them because they don’t understand how they work, lol. The only buff to marauders that’ll make me fly them as much as I did when I first trained into them 3-4 years ago… is a way to not die from a simple L4 thanks to a socket disconnect. I mean, I DID figure out a way to buff 'em myself. I started flying no-bastion cruiser Golems that don’t need no extra range instead. 90s instead of 60s makes little different to me for mishing, not being able to warp off when you get socket disconnected from the game is not being able to warp off when yadda yadda yadda, makes no difference the cycle time. But for those who PVP in them, I’m sure that’s gonna make it even more of a PITA. I do miss Vargur/Kronos/Paladin bastion range fun, and this ROF increase sounds even more fun, but I ain’t betting 2 bil+ (x2, I dualboxed 'em) that my pipe from TX to London will hold when it can fail spectacularly at any time. Too much bastion (1) and abyss (1) death and near-death (half a dozen of each) from that in my past to want to experience MOAR. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/59 "2021-02-19T07:47:19Z")
> [@dakker](#): > > I ran some pyfa fun. nothing like 4b of imaginary funds. But with the changes that’s gonna be 3500dps Eh, helps the marauders out vs. the more attractive (in the past couple years) Leshak for PVE. ---
**Author:** ![Kei\_Hazard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kei_hazard/32/245509_2.png) [@Kei\_Hazard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kei_Hazard)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/60 "2021-02-19T07:59:26Z")
Although this is not an “Official” discussion thread but whatever… I’m here asking about the changed Web Probe. Now there is almost no way an interdictor can launch the probe without getting caught by his own probe with the new 15km range (need 5000+ speed) As the probe works like a burst, even after you leave that AOE your speed is still -50% I highly doubt even Heretic/Flycatcher will survive under this circumstances. Is it by design that the interdictor player should sacrifice himself for using the web probe? Or should that probe only be used when gate camping incoming/fleeing fleets? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=4)