# Bastions of War **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 18, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348 "2021-02-18T17:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mikal\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mikal_phoenix/32/246988_2.png) [@Mikal\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mikal_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/121 "2021-02-21T20:11:45Z")
The Vargur is cap hungry and just like the others it will die when drained. The flat DPS hike from the original plan was a boon for the Vargur as it was pretty much a pure boost. I do get the complaints about a RoF boost hurting the Kronos/Paladin but thats how its been for years. Projectiles dont use cap, Hybrids and Lazors use cap and in return get better tracking/optimals. Changing the Paladin bonus to reduction of cap costs feels like a double boost. I used my Vargur fitting on SISI and the change to the DPS (using Titanium Sabot) only gave a 16dps boost. Because they dropped the RoF and gave it a Damage boost it basically evened out the ship bonus and any gains from the new bonus is negated. For cap (on TQ) Varg 6,200j 18m 19s Paladin 7,500j 16m 40s Golem 6,325j 19m 10s Kronos 6,900j 19m 10s The Paladin already compensates for cap usage with the best capacitor of them all. To give it (and the Kronos) another bonus to cap seems like a kick in the nutsack to us Minnies. Tbh the Vargur also loses out because of the ill thought out slot layout. I know its a Minnie ships but it always feels gimped by comparison. Each of the other Marauders can dedicate a full 7 slot to their tanks and being armor tanked having a dedicated 7 low slot and 4 mids gives you a serious advantage. With the Vargurs 6/5 layout you options for combat are imited because your dedicating your mids to your shields but still need to fit the jump drive/propulsion and other combat mods. I love my Vargur and as a dedicated PvE ship its pretty decent. The new changes to the Bastion mod are interesting and the flat DPS upgrade is a blessing. The 30s timer is very interesting and makes it much more flexible. However; I do find that it almost makes the bastion mod a mandatory fit. Without it I don’t think I’d fly one. I did test out a set of 14s and got an 11s RoF. The increased range feels like a cheap handout. With Barrage and 800s I get 93km falloff and 8km optimal so the current 100m range felt just right. I only use mine for PvE so the sensor strength is neither here nor there (for me) ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/122 "2021-02-21T21:55:11Z")
- Bastion module duration set to 30s (was 90s) - Paladin bonus to capacitor pool changed to large energy turret activation cost reduction (10% per level) - Kronos base capacitor changed to 8000 - Kronos recharge rate changed to 1050000 - All marauder target range increased by 30% - All marauder sensor strength increased by 8 This is bad for paladin. Tested it on sisi, now paladin has even less cap for guns, Tested with test fit, same fit on TQ and SISI: TQ= 17.3 GJ/s SISI= -5.1GJ/s Paladin is now worst, as it doesn’t have enough cap to even sustain pulses in non-bastion mode. 10% to turret activation per level is worse than 5% per level for cap. Paladin is now ultra vulnerable to neuts. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/123 "2021-02-21T22:03:06Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > No idea about the usual cap management of the paladin, but 50% cap reduction of their main weapons at max level seems pretty good to me. It’s a nerf to the Paladin’s cap. The 50% only counters Bastion, while for running everything else you have lost the previous bonus to cap which also actually increases regen rate. So overall Paladin’s cap will be worse when it was already pretty bad if they keep those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/124 "2021-02-21T22:05:07Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > It’s a nerf to the Paladin’s cap. > The 50% only counters Bastion, while for running everything else you have lost the previous bonus to cap which also actually increases regen rate. So overall Paladin’s cap will be worse when it was already pretty bad if they keep those numbers. Yes Paladin is very very bad now, even when not in bastion, **it can’t keep up** with it’s capacitor. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/125 "2021-02-21T22:11:11Z")
and the mimie boy there complain because they cant imagine wat its like to fit tachyon beam lasers with their primitive technology ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/126 "2021-02-21T22:17:09Z")
**I suggest 5% per level for capacitor recharge for Paladin.** ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/127 "2021-02-21T22:19:24Z")
confirmed, similar figures on my paladin fit. Poor Paladin just dropped off the ship tree. It hits harder, sure, almost double dps, but it just doesn’t have the cap to sustain it in bastion mode for more than a few minutes (funny, since it’s now "committed for at least 90s) with the current slot layout. That for an Amarr ship that uses cap as ammo, not to mention it’s an armor repping race. I think this one needs reviewing, @CCP_Rise … We’d be better off without this “buff”. Reducing cap on a cap shooter … that makes for one hell of a reload time for guns, right ? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Viderzei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_viderzei/32/256790_2.png) [@Sasha\_Viderzei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Viderzei)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/128 "2021-02-21T22:43:51Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > (funny, since it’s now "committed for at least 90s) Except it’s not anymore, Bastion duration was reduced to 30s in the latest changes on SiSi. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/129 "2021-02-21T22:49:10Z")
So, what and who to believe then ? Devblog says 90sec, ccp Rise said 90sec on Pando’s stream a day ago, Friday it was 90 sec. Even if it were 30 seconds, that does nothing for the serious cap issues of the Paladin. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/130 "2021-02-22T01:06:06Z")
There are capacitor implants and rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/131 "2021-02-22T01:11:25Z")
You mean buoys to keep the ship afloat 🤨. Sure. What a choice, use implants to overcome flaws at the very core of the ship so it can use its guns for a while, or (re-)invest in a useful ship that performs nominally. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/132 "2021-02-22T02:36:38Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > There are capacitor implants and rigs. That’s nice. That doesn’t change the fact that the Paladin is effectively losing a bonus here due to this change to Bastion. ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/133 "2021-02-22T08:47:56Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > There are capacitor implants and rigs. With capacitor rigs and capacitor modules i can’t keep up with my all LEVEL5 paladin, it just drains all the cap out. @CCP_Rise we need to fix this. I suggest 7.5% to capacitor capacity or 5% to capacitor recharge rate per level for paladin. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/134 "2021-02-22T08:49:40Z")
I dont give a shot about Optimism. My Paladin still seems to do Missions as boringly as it ever has. Sorry I meant optimilisation. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/135 "2021-02-22T09:34:40Z")
> [@Spc\_One](#): > > @CCP_Rise we need to fix this. > I suggest 7.5% to capacitor capacity or 5% to capacitor recharge rate per level for paladin. Or just put the old bonus back, and put a -50% to capacitor usage on the Bastion module itself to cancel out the fire rate. I mean that would be too simple I guess ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/136 "2021-02-22T09:47:04Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Or just put the old bonus back, and put a -50% to capacitor usage on the Bastion module itself to cancel out the fire rate. I mean that would be too simple I guess Yes @CCP_Rise Leave old bonus as it was on paladin, and add -50% cap use when using energy turrets in bastion. Kronos is ok now with larger capacitor. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/137 "2021-02-22T09:55:43Z")
Btw, ran on Sisi with my TQ fit. Paladin lost 20% cap. There is no rig/implant combination that can fix this. Moreover this specific fit already has 2 x t2 cap rigs in it for faster recharge. Replacing those on Sisi with cap capacity rigs makes the recharge rate slightly better than with the original rigs but still 25% worse than originally (without losing tank properties). The way I see it, the ship has been condemned to hisec activity, as it has become more gankable with this gaping cap hole. Kinda fits in with the decade long history of the Amarr ship line, making them the last choice for fleet doctrines and then only in fringe cases. The difference now is that I’m fully x-trained on all subcap ships and weapon systems, but it still stings. So I’m not condemned to fly this “destroyer type in the marauder class”. Imagine pushing this ship into a guardian’s gala combat site. You have to ask yourself one question: “_Do I feel lucky ?_” Well, do ya ? ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/138 "2021-02-22T10:00:59Z")
The arti Vargur is an absolute beast. That is a gross understatement. I love this ship. I will marry this ship. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/139 "2021-02-22T10:01:40Z")
I think the Vargur can now claim the top position, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348/140 "2021-02-22T10:02:25Z")
That’s a funny way to put it, considering my comment 😉 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bastions-of-war/296348.md?page=8)