# "Bigger should not mean better!" WAAAAAAAH! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2020, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859 "2020-03-05T07:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/21 "2020-03-05T09:25:07Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > “A is bad against B, so A should be cheaper” Logi ships should be free. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/22 "2020-03-05T09:27:31Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Of course a single ship is going to run away from a group of ships. The capship isn’t going to run anywhere. Running isn’t an option. It’s going to be caught, and it’s going to die. > [@](#): > > A bigger ship is not worse than small ones. I just listed a bunch of ways, and I could list more. How are bigger ships better? I can list one way: they are better at shooting large structures. Can you name any more ways? > [@](#): > > You are simplifying this whole thing down to “A is bad against B, so A should be cheaper” No, my real argument is that people say “bigger should not mean better!” therefore nerf caps. I’m saying “bigger should not mean worse either!” and I’m showing that in most ways I can think of, bigger is worse and smaller is better. So why the continuous nerfs? ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/23 "2020-03-05T09:34:47Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > If bigger shouldn’t be better, then it shouldn’t be worse either. So drop the price of capships, drop the risk in using them, drop the skilling requirements, drop the restrictions on highsec, make them hit targets better and apply damage better, etc. etc. etc. Yea I agree but on condition, make cap ships double the price of battle ships but only 30% better stats than battle ship’s not 100x the stats. You have obviously in all your time not went out much, as you would find that 90% of roams with 4 friends end with a super dropped on you and then your dead no matter what ships you fly those fighters just murder everything. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/24 "2020-03-05T09:54:09Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > You have obviously in all your time not went out much, as you would find that 90% of roams with 4 friends end with a super dropped on you and then your dead no matter what ships you fly those fighters just murder everything. Been on a bazillion roams, never had any caps undock, never had supers or anything else dropped on me. If it happens to one frigate pilot in a million, it’s gonna be blasted all over the forums until kingdom come, and everybody and their mother will hear about it over and over until their ears bleed. I’d love to see a capship dropped on my small roaming gang because everybody who knows anything knows it will be a dead capship. The most likely thing any capship pilot will ever do is dock the hell up as soon as a frigate is within three jumps of his ratting hole. I’ve never seen any capship pilot do anything else, unless he was afk or distracted. And if a super is gonna be dropped on your gang, it’s gonna have support. Hell, how do you think it even gets dropped? Who lit the cyno? The cyno just lit itself and popped up out of thin air? So if it has support, then it isn’t a ‘super,’ it’s ‘super plus others.’ ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/25 "2020-03-05T10:40:30Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > The capship isn’t going to run anywhere. Running isn’t an option. It’s going to be caught, and it’s going to die. Then use something else for PVE. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I just listed a bunch of ways, and I could list more. How are bigger ships better? I can list one way: they are better at shooting large structures. Can you name any more ways? They are great at taking down other capitals and supers. With the right support, they can even be effective against battleships and cruisers. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > No, my real argument is that people say “bigger should not mean better!” therefore nerf caps. I’m saying “bigger should not mean worse either!” and I’m showing that in most ways I can think of, bigger is worse and smaller is better. So why the continuous nerfs? Because CCP wants to avoid a situation where a capital ship is the go-to choice for any situation. ---
**Author:** ![Wyk\_Bathana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wyk_bathana/32/374287_2.png) [@Wyk\_Bathana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wyk_Bathana)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/26 "2020-03-05T10:43:50Z")
[quote=“Beast\_of\_Revelations, post:24, topic:223859, full:true”] > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > never had any caps undock, never had supers or anything else dropped on me. If it happens to one frigate pilot in a million, it’s gonna be blasted all over the forums until kingdom come, and everybody and their mother will hear about it over and over until their ears bleed. so because you did not see it, it doesn’t happen anywhere in new eden? Init kikistukas fleets are formed almost every day, and we regularly see our targets drop 50 supers on us (with faxes etc of course), and it works to counter the power of kikimoras fleets. Several times per week. You original post seems to forget the number 1 rule in eve : it depends a solo pve super against a bombers fleet? yes the super is weaker and should dock up 10 pvp supers with faxes against 2 thrashers? guess who wins so… you said “caps cannot dock up”. They can jump out (with NSA off), no? Honestly i wonder if your post was a troll or not ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/27 "2020-03-05T12:53:52Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > never had supers or anything else dropped on me I think it’s a function of where you live maybe we get caps and supers dropped on us very often. I have had them dropped on me solo and in small gangs. Just recently I was in a 4 man where the heaviest ship was a hurricane and we were dropped by a super. I have had supers dropped on me in a solo cruiser before. There is so much isk out there and no risk for them they just drop on anyone just because. ---
**Author:** ![Zirconium\_Solkaze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zirconium_solkaze/32/173693_2.png) [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zirconium_Solkaze)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/28 "2020-03-05T12:57:24Z")
Generally speaking, in the natural world. Bigger is better. There are exceptions, but those are exceptions. Not the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/29 "2020-03-05T13:01:52Z")
As for the op - boo hoo. You can’t rat 100% safely in an unsupported cap ship, something it was never supposed to do. Good. This is by design. Your failness is not a flaw in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/30 "2020-03-05T13:09:04Z")
You have to distinguish between normal caps and supercaps. I rat with a supercap (Hel) and I don’t run away when I see single frigates. Only if the Intel announces a larger (40+) fleet. But I also have all implants and about 28m EHP with fax on demand and cyno on grid. My super can tank for a longer time, until the reinforcement comes. For the normal caps the motto is: “die quietly”, that is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/31 "2020-03-05T14:12:48Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Yeah. The only time I see capships get taken down by other capships is in these big nullsec invasions where one giant cap blob is fighting another one. Well, to be fair, there should be no reason to use a capship in any other kind of fight in the first place IMO. It they were powerfull in other situations, you would very quickly make them the only goal of this game: If the bigger ship can do everything, just rush toward it, never bother using other ships. > [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](#): > > Generally speaking, in the natural world. Bigger is better. There are exceptions, but those are exceptions. Not the norm. Lol, no. That is clearly wrong in a military perspective. Well, it’s true if you only speak about a pure 1vs1 situation, but warfares are not 1vs1. And the OP wasn’t complaining about 1vs1 either. ---
**Author:** ![Kace\_Robins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kace_robins/32/484596_2.png) [@Kace\_Robins](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kace_Robins)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/32 "2020-03-05T14:37:24Z")
Capitals and citadels are ■■■■. Remove both and the game is 100% better. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![Zirconium\_Solkaze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zirconium_solkaze/32/173693_2.png) [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zirconium_Solkaze)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/33 "2020-03-05T14:42:38Z")
Never hear about a pack of wolves eating a lion. I bet Velociraptors never took down a T-rex either. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/34 "2020-03-05T15:08:19Z")
If you prefer not to be called a troll in most posts, you should probably stop posting trollbait threads. You should probably also stop AFK farming in your carriers in regions where the local intel doesn’t work. You should probably also stop ignoring the intel that _does_ work. You should probably also stop AFKing. After you do that, it will be easier to use intel channels and D-Scan to be aware of when those 20 stealth bombers are headed your way. If you’re going to use the OP caps designed by CCP to entice the Null farmer crowd who are also expected by CCP to have their own alts to support their gameplay (see recent “Play EVE the **right** way” promotion), you should prob. be farming with an alt who can assist your OP caps when needed. Lastly, you should probably stop trying to make threads out of exaggerated nonsense. It doesn’t do anything for CCP, EVE, or your issue - it simply convinces people you’re mentally challenged. It also lowers the benefits of the forums for everyone by providing yet another example of “reasons to ignore the EVE forums”. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/35 "2020-03-05T15:36:25Z")
> [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](#): > > Never hear about a pack of wolves eating a lion. Really? Maybe not wolves specifically, mostly because they don’t really live in the same place you know, but stories about packs of smaller predators killing a bigger predator are not that hard to find actually. > [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](#): > > I bet Velociraptors never took down a T-rex either. I wouldn’t be so sure about that either ^^ Those things were basically Interceptors with permanent MWD. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/36 "2020-03-05T15:37:20Z")
> [@Zirconium\_Solkaze](#): > > Never hear about a pack of wolves eating a lion. But by pack of hyenas 😛 2:45 Homedef is coming 😅 [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/c/6fc7d578aa0d8654793fafd1fc36faab4fb173e8.jpeg "Lion Trapped by Clan of Hyenas | Dynasties | BBC Earth") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5V6gdu5ih8) ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/37 "2020-03-05T18:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > > > The capship isn’t going to run anywhere. Running isn’t an option. It’s going to be caught, and it’s going to die. > > Then use something else for PVE. So you are saying capships are indeed vulnerable, and not deserving of more nerfs? > [@](#): > > > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > > > I just listed a bunch of ways, and I could list more. How are bigger ships better? I can list one way: they are better at shooting large structures. Can you name any more ways? > > They are great at taking down other capitals and supers. With the right support, they can even be effective against battleships and cruisers. Caps are great at taking down other caps… so they need to be nerfed more? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/38 "2020-03-05T18:41:03Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Caps are great at taking down other caps… so they need to be nerfed more? Who is it that keeps saying they do? I may have missed it, but I couldnt see one call for a specific nerf or even a general one of any kind. I have my own opinion on em and its not to nerf em, but Im not a regular cap user in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/39 "2020-03-05T19:20:10Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > The capship isn’t going to run anywhere. Running isn’t an option. It’s going to be caught, and it’s going to die. Where the hell is its escort? Combined arms is a thing… Use the right tool for the job. –Toolmaker Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/40 "2020-03-05T19:23:28Z")
What I am saying is that it’s not as easy as you make it seem. You have to look at the big picture. A single capital is always vulnerable as they are designed to be used as part of a fleet. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=3)