# "Bigger should not mean better!" WAAAAAAAH! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2020, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859 "2020-03-05T07:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/61 "2020-03-06T03:10:43Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > He was talking about in PVP fleets, not solo krabbing. I don’t think that’s relevant. You are claiming the people calling for capship nerfs don’t exist. One just showed up in this thread. Now you’re mumbling something about PvP vs solo krabbing, which has nothing to do with the price of cotton in England. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 3:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/62 "2020-03-06T03:25:38Z")
You are definitely funny. ---
**Author:** ![BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING\_BOINGOBBLEOI](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/boingboingboingboing_boingobbleoi/32/203433_2.png) [@BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING\_BOINGOBBLEOI](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING_BOINGOBBLEOI)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/63 "2020-03-06T03:53:25Z")
I wish cap ships were re-purposed as potato gun boats. Cap ships would just shoot yams at things, until they ran out of yams. Then they would dock up and get more yams. Gameplay loop established. Cap discussion over. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/64 "2020-03-06T05:04:28Z")
Then their yams would melt. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/65 "2020-03-06T08:36:20Z")
Why are you linking Beast of revelations quote but its showing my name? That’s not my quote lol. ---
**Author:** ![Lost\_touch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lost_touch/32/393122_2.png) [@Lost\_touch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lost_touch)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/66 "2020-03-06T09:44:01Z")
Sorry mate things have weaknesses. If you get ganked by 20 people your dead in pritty much any ship just so you know. No you cant just have a jack of all trade ship. Things need support deal with it ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/67 "2020-03-06T09:46:26Z")
Is there an example in any fiction or fact work of the kind of vessel that the OP ideally wants? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/68 "2020-03-06T09:50:18Z")
Yeah, the ship that kid flew in The Last Starfighter. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/69 "2020-03-06T09:52:17Z")
Death Blossom results in craft shutdown for an extended period. I agree this would be a cool feature. ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/70 "2020-03-06T10:08:24Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Nobody I know or ever have known […] tries to PvP with the carrier. Get gud? Your telling me, that you and your friends arent good and dont know how to PvP with an carrier? That tells me, that you got no clue on how to use them and thats why you shouldnt talk about cap balance. Lets ask what the Goon super cap FC thinks. He controlls the biggest capital Fleet in New Eden, he should know, what he is talking about, right? [https://old.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/e9bpbc/i\_lead\_the\_largest\_supercapital\_fleet\_in\_the/](https://old.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/e9bpbc/i_lead_the_largest_supercapital_fleet_in_the/) > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > It’s one carrier killing 2-3 battleships each. Sounds completely fair to me. Its not, the carriers cant die. The battleship fleet can only loose and this is a fleet, that is already a “counter” to carriers. If the Battleships where able to kill some carriers in this fight, then i would agree. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > They don’t need nerfs now, and they didn’t need nerfs a few years ago when CCP nerfed them So why does the whole CSM disagree with you? Why does every major Null power think, that capitals are to strong? Maybe you dont understand the topic completley and you are wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/71 "2020-03-06T10:15:46Z")
I’m not so sure… from what I have read, my impression is that people think Titans and FAXs are the main problem (with supercarriers somewhat less so). I do not follow all the discussions by any means, but not many people complain about lone carriers or even lone dreads being overpowered without fleet support. ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/72 "2020-03-06T10:18:25Z")
They are also not nerfed thinking about single carriers or dreads. That doesnt mean that carriers couldnt need more nerfs. i personally think, that they could up the dread insurance a little bit again, to counter other caps more efficient, but lets see what the next talos patch brings first. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/73 "2020-03-06T13:14:05Z")
> [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > Nightmares also have an AB bonus, so they are much better at sig-tanking its a ■■■■■■■ Battleship, what a sig tanking has an whale? ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/74 "2020-03-06T13:37:15Z")
> [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > its a ■■■■■■■ Battleship, what a sig tanking has an whale? Rattle and Nightmares, that i was talking about before: ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/2/7215dadad87f3ae58bb8a7b27c10dbd0ab02bc47.png) The nightmare takes half the dmg, so yes, it does sig tank quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/75 "2020-03-06T14:08:30Z")
half the damage of ideal target yes, but there is no difference from Rattle to Nightmare? [![Imgur](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/1/61d88cfae9a098ffe2df3e5f2d43861dbb913afc.jpeg "Imgur") ](https://imgur.com/TZrdPyB) PS: If using Super with Heavy Fighters there is a difference between Rattle and Nightmare, right. [![Imgur](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/b/6b92fcbc4fde864ba30aaa72b52989154bc61d5c.jpeg "Imgur") ](https://imgur.com/0204sv8) ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/76 "2020-03-06T14:22:24Z")
Did you fit any tracking on the carrier? Because you seem to deal no dmg at all. I removed the ideal target, so its clear, i did also shut off the Rattle MWD, to lower its sig. Im using Firebolg I and the rattle has a bit more thermal resistence. (80,7% vs 81,4%) The carrier has two T2 omni tracking links in the mids with tracking scripts loaded. Because since the last application nerf you should use them. ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/c/9c1bef301aad0d34de6d751d216270df97fac7db.png) ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/77 "2020-03-06T14:30:39Z")
Yeah, you are right. Its a mostly the missile damage that sucks on application to nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/78 "2020-03-06T19:07:41Z")
> [@Lost\_touch](#): > > If you get ganked by 20 people your dead in pritty much any ship just so you know. > > No you cant just have a jack of all trade ship. > > Things need support deal with it This isn’t a complaint about a dread being ganked by 20 people. Work on your reading-comprehension. > [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > Get gud? Your telling me, that you and your friends arent good and dont know how to PvP with an carrier? That tells me, that you got no clue on how to use them and thats why you shouldnt talk about cap balance. Troll much? What I said was, I don’t know anyone, outside of rare exceptions (pilots who are uber-rich and who don’t mind throwing away a carrier for the LOLZ), who would warp onto a gate with a carrier (solo PvP) to try to snag a frigate. They all dock up. The vast majority of people who read this and who actually have experience in nullsec will silently agree. It’s just fact. You simply don’t know what you are talking about. > [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > The battleship fleet can only loose and this is a fleet, that is already a “counter” to carriers. A nightmare fleet is not a ‘counter’ to a carrier fleet (except in your imagination) and should not be. Well, unless we adjust some numbers. 100 nightmares vs. 3 carriers? Sure. But now we are getting into game design philosophy, personal opinions, etc. So think whatever you want, and I’ll do the same. > [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > So why does the whole CSM disagree with you? Why does every major Null power think, that capitals are to strong? What, you are saying that there ARE lots of people out there (lots and lots apparently) who want capship nerfs? People in this thread are claiming it’s all a figment of my imagination LOL, a conspiracy theory. At any rate, assuming the entire CSM _DOES_ disagree with me (a bare assertion made by you), who cares? They are elected, like politicians. Are you so weak-minded that you think anything out of the mouth of someone branded ‘CSM’ is ‘word of God?’ Secondly, where the hell do you get off saying ‘every major null power’ thinks this? LOL! Do you know every person in every major null power block? ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/79 "2020-03-06T20:33:38Z")
> [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/7/a70ab5d077374748901898cfcd9c7a09b8a303a9.png) [reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/e9bpbc/i_lead_the_largest_supercapital_fleet_in_the/) > > ### [r/Eve - I lead the largest supercapital fleet in the history of Eve, and I…](https://old.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/e9bpbc/i_lead_the_largest_supercapital_fleet_in_the/) > > 1,239 votes and 641 comments so far on Reddit I read it a long time ago when it was posted. There are many issues, but we’ll start with these: 1. It is unclear what the author thinks the actual problem is. 2. It is unclear why it’s a problem, whatever the problem is. 3. There are other problems that seem to be mixed-in with the ‘unclear problem’ stated above regarding capships. For instance the so-called “N+1 problem” which means “if you bring N ships, I’ll just bring N+1 and win.” That’s a different, and more fundamental problem which needs to be separated out (and it is also unclear why _THAT_ is a problem; should you bring N+1 ships and _LOSE_?). ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/80 "2020-03-06T20:35:42Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > The single **frigate** could (just one example of many) be a **Sabre**. You think? I think I will never ready any of your ■■■■■■■■ posts again. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=5)