# "Bigger should not mean better!" WAAAAAAAH! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2020, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859 "2020-03-05T07:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/81 "2020-03-06T20:38:55Z")
Yeah, I know. It’s a _HUGE_ problem which invalidates anything that has been said in this entire bloody post. I mean, miscalling a destroyer a frigate. The OP must not know anything and that proves it LOL. Anyway, if you won’t be reading any of my posts again, FANTASTIC, and good riddance. The less trolls and other undesirables populating the forums, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/82 "2020-03-06T20:39:54Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > The OP must not know anything Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/83 "2020-03-06T21:10:34Z")
I thought you were leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/84 "2020-03-06T21:12:12Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I mean, miscalling a destroyer a frigate. people that are just doing a little bit of null PvP would never ever miscall a Sabre. The Sabre is the most used dictor in the whole game and people flying caps should know what it is. Also, the carrier can kill it in less than 30 seconds or SB the bubble and warp away, sounds fine: ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/1/8125ba8e24a07ba3a334f3757af31add1b4bddac.png) > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > For instance the so-called “N+1 problem” If N+1 would always win, then why do we need all the different ships and fittings? Every strategy should have a counter, that doesnt mean N+1. Capitals dont have that. The only answer to a blob of capitals is a bigger blob of capitals. Thats boring gameplay and the reason nullsec became that stale in the last few years. The only reason that Goons arent killing everybody else right now is, that it takes so long for them to move the fleet up, that the enemys can just evac everything. (Last deployment into NC. space) > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > It is unclear what the author thinks the actual problem is. Big capital fleets in their current state. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > It is unclear why it’s a problem, whatever the problem is. Beginning of the text: “I’m often pushing for a war of some sort. The first question that gets asked is “do they have a super fleet?” (quick note here, supers usually means supercapital, I’ll try to specify if I’m referring specifically to supercarriers) if the answer is “yes” then the second question is “what would happen if we deploy ours?”. And I will tell you the answers, if they have one and we don’t bring ours we will lose the war (we tried bringing 1000 carriers and dreads against NC/PL a few years ago to see if that could work, it didn’t) and if we bring our fleet, we will win. Since X-47 Goons against p much any other group in this game will win barring just a cosmic failure. This is not a good position for either group in my opinion.” If you think otherwise, thats great, but i personally would believe the guy, that actually commands 1000s of capitals for a few years already. Or you give us a reason, why you, a random forum guy, knows it better than the supercapital FC of the biggest super fleet in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/85 "2020-03-06T21:28:21Z")
> [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > If N+1 would always win, then why do we need all the different ships and fittings? Every strategy should have a counter, that doesnt mean N+1. Capitals dont have that. The only answer to a blob of capitals is a bigger blob of capitals. Thats boring gameplay and the reason nullsec became that stale in the last few years. Naturally, we are assuming “all other things being equal.” So, “all other things being equal” (ships, skill, tactics, etc), if N+1 doesn’t win, you are saying N+1 either ties or loses. That doesn’t make sense. You could always throw everything out the window and just RNG everything. I don’t think people would like that outcome either. > [@](#): > > The only reason that Goons arent killing everybody else right now is, that it takes so long for them to move the fleet up, that the enemys can just evac everything. (Last deployment into NC. space) If you’re outnumbered, you’re outnumbered. What should CCP do, put a limit on number of ships in a fleet? Limit on number of pilots allowed in corp or alliance? I’m not saying I love goons, or love ‘status quo.’ I’m just honesty asking what’s the big problem with the idea that numbers matter, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL of course? > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > > > It is unclear what the author thinks the actual problem is. > > Big capital fleets in their current state. That doesn’t clarify what the author thinks the actual problem is. > [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > …i personally would believe the guy, that actually commands 1000s of capitals for a few years already. Or you give us a reason, why you, a random forum guy, knows it better than the supercapital FC of the biggest super fleet in the game. You would believe the guy _ABOUT WHAT?_ Why I know better than the goon supercapital FC _ABOUT WHAT?_ I’m willing to believe he thinks there’s a problem. But _ABOUT WHAT_ exactly? You quoted him as stating his problem is that if the enemy has a supercapital fleet, and he doesn’t bring his, he loses the battle. So do I believe him and his assessment about this? Sure! Not that I think he or anyone else should be _AUTOMATICALLY_ believed about anything, but sure, I’m willing to believe it. But the question is, should we believe him that _IT IS A PROBLEM_ that if the enemy has a supercapital fleet, and he doesn’t bring his, he loses (all other things being equal, of course)? That isn’t a question of his experience leading a goon supercapital fleet. That’s a question of philosophy, of perspective, of gameplay. So the answer is, no. Just because he’s “goon supercapital fleet commander” doesn’t mean his philosophy or perspective outranks yours, mine, or anyone else’s. We aren’t debating the intricacies of how to FC and run a supercapital fleet. If we were, yes, I’d believe him and his experience over mine. So now that that’s cleared up, Do you think it is outrageous that if the USA brings it’s supercapital fleet (carriers, battleships, whatever) in a naval war against Cuba, and Cuba sends out some beat-up frigates and tugboats, that the USA wins? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/86 "2020-03-06T21:31:10Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Do you think it is outrageous that if the USA brings it’s supercapital fleet (carriers, battleships, whatever) in a naval war against Cuba, and Cuba sends out some beat-up frigates and tugboats, that the USA wins? I think your example is more outrageous. Better comparison would be US fleet in Tiawan realising theres 500 Chinese Stealth Bombers armed with cruise missiles 15 seconds away. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/87 "2020-03-06T21:33:38Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I thought you were leaving? Learn to read. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/88 "2020-03-06T21:41:47Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Better comparison would be US fleet in Tiawan realising theres 500 Chinese Stealth Bombers armed with cruise missiles 15 seconds away. Yes, I think that is the fundamental question. Do people want Eve Online to be “Frigates Online?” Unquestionably, some people do. Unquestionably, some people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/89 "2020-03-06T21:43:31Z")
Well, it isnt, and thats the important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/90 "2020-03-06T22:59:23Z")
Your question was about: > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > “Bigger should not mean better!” Well, it shouldn’t mean worse either. Goon main FC says Caps are too stronk and need nerfs/changes → they arent worse Goon supercap main FC opinion \> random forum guy opinion with wrong claims \thread Have a nice weekend, im out. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/91 "2020-03-06T23:25:12Z")
> [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > Goon main FC says Caps are too stronk and need nerfs/changes > –\> they arent worse 1. Fallacy of “appeal to authority.” 2. Failure to think for yourself, which we can shorten to “failure to think.” > [@](#): > > Goon supercap main FC opinion \> random forum guy opinion with wrong claims 1. Fallacy of “appeal to authority.” 2. Failure to think for yourself, which we can shorten to “failure to think.” Go take a logic class. Come back and try again after you passed it. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/92 "2020-03-06T23:27:00Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Go take a logic class. Are you a standup comedian IRL? ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/93 "2020-03-06T23:27:56Z")
How old are you? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/94 "2020-03-06T23:32:29Z")
You cannot be serious. Your posts have sarcastic titles, followed by ridiculous claims. You rant and rave against an imagined enemy. Most of the current discussion is centered around titans, not carriers. All you do in these posts is imply stuff, without ever making a clear statement of your own. When people try to explain balance to you or explain how you can solve your problems, you just refer them back to the imaginary critics, maybe somewhere on Reddit. Your posts are too well written for you to actually be that stupid. Now you are telling people to take a logic class? I think it is safe to say that all of your posts violate logic in the most profound ways. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/95 "2020-03-06T23:52:08Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Fallacy of “appeal to authority.” Having an authority confirming your claim is still better than not having one. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/96 "2020-03-06T23:58:46Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Every capship I see docks up at the first sign of a neutral frigate in pocket. You hang out with the wrong cap pilots, then. I prefer to fly with the ones dropping on hostiles. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > They arent even esthetically pleasing. Well, the Aeon is in a league of its own but the others don’t look terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/97 "2020-03-07T00:01:40Z")
> [@Gergoran\_Moussou](#): > > the others don’t look terrible. Eh asthetics are by nature subjective. I think they are all pretty naff. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/98 "2020-03-07T02:12:34Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Now you are telling people to take a logic class? I think it is safe to say that all of your posts violate logic in the most profound ways. The indisputable fact is, he made two appeals to authority right there in his post, and I quoted them. Then you attacked me LOL. I think you need to take a logic class yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/99 "2020-03-07T02:16:21Z")
Maybe you can be my teacher! Post #1: I couldn’t kill a fly with a cannonball. Mumble mumble something about something. Post #2: If 20 people come to gank me, I have to dock up. Mumble mumble something about something. Appealing to authority is not necessarily a logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859/100 "2020-03-07T02:52:07Z")
Just allow dreads to swap turrets / launchers while in combat (but not in siege though) This would allow the pilot to shoot the targets like smaller ships by applying the correct explosion radius before activating siege. Then while they are in siege they can’t change. The large capitals should be able to swap out fittings too like how they can move items in and out of fleet bay. /Then when siege is active there is also the added bonus of using such smaller turrets or launchers due to less slots and apply enough damage to take out a small ship class that is not being remote repaired. (my wish would be that ^) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bigger-should-not-mean-better-waaaaaaah/223859.md?page=6)