# Bitcoin - A tool or an investment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [May 28, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624 "2024-05-28T21:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/145 "2024-09-25T20:23:34Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Bitcoin will enable them to bypass their sanctions and trade with some other countries. I neither agree or disagree with this but find it interesting how Bitcoin if used properly can be quite effective. > [@The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/466): > > The only way to trade without giving up control by utilizing the CBDC of the other side will be Bitcoin, because it’s the neutral option no one has control over. This is inevitable. It has a good chance to become the global neutral settlement network. This doesn’t mean it will replace fiat currency but become another option for trade between rival fiat systems that are not well connected because of geopolitical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/146 "2024-10-17T00:07:52Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/f/7/7f7527cebfe62992d8ac4ea4c31c22999a70b2cd.jpeg "Money Electric: The Bitcoin Mystery | Official Trailer | HBO") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSF0KGsFuI8) ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/147 "2024-11-06T09:51:52Z")
Bitcoin just smashed trough the ATH at 74k+ Everyone who has ever bought Bitcoin and did not sell is in profit right now. Please add your comments about tulip bubbles below: ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/148 "2024-11-06T09:53:47Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > tulip bubbles How many `tulipsalad`s can you buy for a BTC? 🤔 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/149 "2024-11-19T11:19:57Z")
I guess it is good news, but it doesn’t really excite me anymore. The only real reason the BTC value is up is because more people are buying and holding. I’ve not heard of any retail uses for BTC suddenly becoming widespread. The only thing I can think of is the Russian sanctions having an effect on the value as they are frozen out from many world-wide financial systems and may have to depend on BTC. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/150 "2024-11-19T11:24:23Z")
> **[Bitcoin: Newport man says binned hard drive now worth £569m](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr0dyy152jo)** > > James Howells believes his lost hard drive, which contains 8,000 Bitcoins, is in a landfill site. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/151 "2024-11-19T20:03:29Z")
Or maybe, more people become aware of the first and biggest neutral monetary network in existance and that it survived for over 15 years now, proving all the critics wrong. In the end the question is, what is the global use case for this global bearer asset, and that will determine the value it will eventually settle at when all the speculation is over. It is probably fair to say if your valuation model still predicts that Bitcoin has no value, it’s probably wrong ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/152 "2024-11-21T01:33:37Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Or maybe, more people become aware of the first and biggest neutral monetary network in existance and that it survived for over 15 years now, proving all the critics wrong. I’m sure everyone is aware of Bitcoin, my only problem is the value we are seeing is not the organic value but a manipulated one where lots of people have agreed to buy and hold it for a long period of time. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > In the end the question is, what is the global use case for this global bearer asset, and that will determine the value it will eventually settle at when all the speculation is over. This has already been determined, it is money transfer network, a tamper proof ledger, and a privacy/security tool. The goal will always be the fiat money bitcoin is exchanged for, and it’s current usage seems to be the ability to buy/sell goods or services without the oversight of another country/authority/or 3rd party. The world is changing rapidly and ethics seem to be one of the concerns of the world. We should consider that countries are sanctioned for a reason and with the introduction of Bitcoin it might be possible for a sanctioned country to carry on as normal using Bitcoin. So effectively on one hand we protest and march in the street against atrocities we see in other countries while the other hand might be helping provide the tools for these sanctioned countries continue their nasty deeds. Yes we can all buy BTC and double triple our money, great. But if it comes at the cost of possible harm to others what then? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > It is probably fair to say if your valuation model still predicts that Bitcoin has no value, it’s probably wrong Of course it has a value, only I would like to see the organic, non-manipulative, free from greed, oppressors and tricksters value. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/153 "2024-11-21T16:16:26Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Yes we can all buy BTC and double triple our money, great. But if it comes at the cost of possible harm to others what then? I’m positively surprised you finally got it. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/154 "2024-11-21T18:51:04Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > I’m positively surprised you finally got it. Yes, world events are actually helping me to come to my conclusions. I do feel that lots of people world-wide are manipulated and that many of us actually take actions which end up being against our own interests. Due to fiat money being the goal of any crypto I am happy to see that good efforts are being made to stop criminals exchanging crypto for fiat money. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/155 "2024-11-23T22:22:52Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I’m sure everyone is aware of Bitcoin They are aware that it exists. But they don’t know how it works or what it means. > [@Aaron](#): > > not the organic value but a manipulated one How do you know that? Bitcoin is traded on a gazillion exchanges and has an absolutely insane liquidity. All this means that it is basically impossible to manipulate the prise in the long term. Also speculation is not the same as manipulation. > [@Aaron](#): > > We should consider that countries are sanctioned for a reason and with the introduction of Bitcoin it might be possible for a sanctioned country to carry on as normal using Bitcoin. This is some very weird perception of things. The west tried to weaponize their ownership over the dominant monetary network. A neutral global monetary network will just restore the balance and remove this one sided power. To portray the west as somehow the force for good in the world that deserves the right to decide who can has access to the global financial system is absurd, given they actively fund a genocide in the middle-east at the moment and constantly abuse their power over the reserve currency to exploit the global south. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/156 "2024-11-24T07:02:10Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > To portray the west as somehow the force for good in the world that deserves the right to decide who can has access to the global financial system is absurd Have you seen what is going on is Sudan? The UK has sanctioned a few compainies in Dubai for supporting constant war in Sudan which keep the residents of Sudan in poverty. Approx 10 million people are actually dying of starvation right now. If these companies in Dubai are acctually responsible then should they just be able to switch over to Bitcoin and continue supporting war in Sudan? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > But they don’t know how it works or what it means. I know people who have invested a lot of money in Bitcoin yet they have no clue what it is for or what it does, they just believe one day the price is going to skyrocket. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > How do you know that? Bitcoin is traded on a gazillion exchanges and has an absolutely insane liquidity. All this means that it is basically impossible to manipulate the prise in the long term. > > Also speculation is not the same as manipulation. Many of the people buying it are seeking to double their money based on the scarcity of Bitcoin increasing and the value going up. Most people see it as an investment and a term HODL was created which describes the act of buying crypto and holding it. In my opinion this is somewhat manipulation as currently the only thing keeping the Bitcoin price high IS the fact that people are buying and holding. So, the UK has issued an arrest warrant for the Isrelli Prime Minister which could mean some sanctions get put into place. Generally, the whole world would like if isreal stopped it’s actions based on humanatarian grounds. Now, if we can try to understand Bitcoin’s role in this then Isreal might be able to continue their actions without the oversight of a Country/Authority/or third party. Generally I’m just presenting my perspective as I see it, I am on the side of peace and I do not mean any offence to anyone. I am going to link Bitcoin with sanctioned businesses and countries as it’s what I see happening. I just feel we have to be careful not to prop-up bitcoins value and be instrumental in supplying it to people with sinister intentions. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > A neutral global monetary network will just restore the balance and remove this one sided power. This might be wishful thinking, the factual truth isn’t always as simple as you put it. Recent events have shown me that we must be ultra-ultra careful with our views and opinions and who we dislike. If I may talk about politics for a moment we can see that many have a dislike for Obama and Harris and the Democrats. Many people didn’t understand that Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act were the same thing and voted for Trump which could potencially end their medical support payments as Trump will most likely decide to scrap Affordable care. Essentially many people voted for their medical care payments to be stopped without realising and only now are they googling Affordable care and Obama care to find out what it is. I could go on, many people also voted for tarrifs on imported goods and only after the election they realise THEY will be the ones paying the tarriffs as business will always pass much of the cost onto the consumer. Corporations will restructure and possibly lots of people will lose jobs. Look, generally I’m just saying do we have a 100% solid understanding of what we are doing HODL’ing Bitcoin? Do we have a full understanding of the world it could create? I just hope we know what we are doing because once something is created it is difficult to undo it. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/157 "2024-11-24T10:22:42Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Essentially many people voted for their medical care payments to be stopped without realising They also gave this people the keys to selectively turn off who can use the traditional financial system. I rather opt-in to a financial system where such a key does not exist. There are other ways how sanctions can be enforced without weaponizing the financial system. But anyway, Bitcoin is not going away and it was purposely designed to resist government attacks. So rather than asking yourself if it is good or bad and if we should keep it around, rather think about how a future looks like where it becomes more domimant. > **[Crypto Tools like Signal and Bitcoin Don't Harm Democracy. They Help It](https://time.com/5933380/signal-bitcoin-extremism-democracy/)** > > The battle for privacy is moving to the next medium: money ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/158 "2024-11-24T20:03:47Z")
> [@Time Article](#): > > journalists and pro-democracy organizers including [Alexei Navalny](https://time.com/5930595/alexei-navalny-return-russia-why/) turned away from corporate and government money to the decentralized Bitcoin network to raise funds and keep the pressure on their regimes. Yes, this is the type of usage I would definitely like to see Bitcoin used for. The issue I have is people who HODL will profit from the fact equality campaigners need to use Bitcoin for survival. As I said we just need to be careful of how we use things. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Drew](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_drew/32/395254_2.png) [@ISD\_Drew](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Drew)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/159 "2024-11-25T00:59:42Z")
I’m not really sure if its possible to discuss Bitcoin without getting entangled in Rule #2 on \* [Real World Politics](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/8563133115932-Forum-Moderation-Policy) here given the number of previously failed attempts, but here’s a last chance for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Salartarium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salartarium/32/468818_2.png) [@Salartarium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salartarium)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/160 "2024-11-25T06:11:20Z")
> [@ISD\_Drew](#): > > I’m not really sure if its possible to discuss Bitcoin without getting entangled in Rule #2 on \* [Real World Politics](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/8563133115932-Forum-Moderation-Policy) here given the number of previously failed attempts, but here’s a last chance for this thread. What if we want to talk about the official Alliance Tournament NFT? I like this one because it combines two core elements of EVE Online; Blockchain and Dr. Who! [objkt.com](https://objkt.com/tokens/alliancetournament/888617837) Maybe a dev can chime in on why they thought Tezos was the best blockchain. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/161 "2024-11-25T13:03:38Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > The issue I have is people who HODL will profit from the fact equality campaigners need to use Bitcoin for survival. You rather store your money at a government insured bank? > ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/162 "2024-11-25T16:04:15Z")
Bitcoin is real world politics, But Eve Coin is part of the roleplayer aspect of Eve Online. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/163 "2024-11-26T14:03:09Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You rather store your money at a government insured bank? My point was profit can be made from people who need Bitcoin as a matter of survival. And to answer your question, Yes I believe that is what I want. Bitcoin is still volitile and nobody can possibly know what the future holds. In the UK money is insured quite well and I believe all UK bank crisies (2008 financial crash) are well on their way to being paid back. So it would seem in the UK the government will bail out banks as a high priority and then collect the loan from the banks profits over a 10/20 year period depending on the severity of the crash. I get that the financial system in other countries may not work as well as it does in the UK and other opinions may differ from mine. Yes we also printed/borrowed money for Covid which is being paid back or burned now. Lots of people face a cost of living crisis in the UK. But yes I do have a trust that my money is safe simply because that is what I have always seen from my perspective. Other countries may not be so fortunate. Also, the synapse fitech crisis, why are people storing their savings in a bank that’s only been operating 10 years? Also were the customers aware their money was not backed by the government? My bank has been running since 1836 and is fully backed by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624/164 "2024-11-26T19:37:51Z")
> [@Salartarium](#): > > Maybe a dev can chime in on why they thought Tezos was the best blockchain. I’d say it’s difficult to have an out of pod discussion without comming across certain topics. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bitcoin-a-tool-or-an-investment/450624.md?page=9)