# BitterVets apparently do not appreciate the #1 CareBear Rule in HiSec - Warpout if Someone is Already There **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [January 26, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579 "2018-01-26T22:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Orbit\_Arbosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orbit_arbosa/32/147685_2.png) [@Orbit\_Arbosa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orbit_Arbosa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/1 "2018-01-26T22:25:31Z")
Not a rant. Just an explanation to those mystified by one of those unspoken rules. Not that this is confined to BitterVets only. I have seen others do this also. So what prompted me to remark on this is I saw a BitterVet complaining in local that the Noob cussing him did not understand that this was competition and the Noob should understand this. I omitted to mention that there is not much competition between a 2million SP player vs a BitterVet with 10years under his belt in a Tech II hull and went on my business. Nonetheless this appears to be a HiSec thing. Noobs apparently warp out of a site if someone is already there and apparently expect the same courtesy. _shrug_ I tend to do this myself. Except when it is someone who I recall did not show me the same courtesy. Then I take great pleasure in providing some “competition” to the point of skipping sites till I find the one he is already in. Whatever man. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/2 "2018-01-26T22:31:43Z")
> [@Orbit\_Arbosa](#): > > Except when it is someone who I recall did not show me the same courtesy. Then I take great pleasure in providing some “competition” to the point of skipping sites till I find the one he is already in. Bingo, this is the right answer, at least its my answer as well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kathern\_Aurilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kathern_aurilen/32/149798_2.png) [@Kathern\_Aurilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kathern_Aurilen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/3 "2018-01-26T22:51:39Z")
I usually bounce out or sit and watch a while if a site is occupied, depending on their technic ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/4 "2018-01-26T23:13:51Z")
> [@Orbit\_Arbosa](#): > > unspoken rules That mystifies me. Why, in an open sandbox, would there be rules? Even if they are unspoken. You (not YOU, the “whoever’s complaining” you) don’t like what they’re doing, shoot them. Concord will clean up the mess 😃. Unless they’re suspect/etc, in which case, the person you shoot will clean up the mess after they steamroll the newbro lol. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/5 "2018-01-26T23:31:00Z")
> [@Orbit\_Arbosa](#): > > I saw a BitterVet complaining in local that the Noob cussing him did not understand that this was competition and the Noob should understand this. The “bittervet” wasn’t wrong. Every part of Eve is competitive, the whole game is designed around being in a state of constant competition with others. You should also know that noob is considered to be offensive to new players, newb(ie) or newbro isn’t. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/3/5314ab29dbc6763882cf4c3a9ed940710c6ba7ac.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Orbit\_Arbosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orbit_arbosa/32/147685_2.png) [@Orbit\_Arbosa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orbit_Arbosa)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/6 "2018-01-27T00:01:15Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > > [@Orbit\_Arbosa](#): > > > > unspoken rules > > That mystifies me. > > Why, in an open sandbox, would there be rules? Even if they are unspoken. > > You (not YOU, the “whoever’s complaining” you) don’t like what they’re doing, shoot them. Concord will clean up the mess 😃. Unless they’re suspect/etc, in which case, the person you shoot will clean up the mess after they steamroll the newbro lol. Well, I figured out the rule after other Noobs started putting a price on ma haid, cursing and yelling at me in local (which I noticed wayyy after the site was done) etc. etc. etc. After this happened ten or so times I started to get the idea that it was a rule. As for Concord sorting things out … well yep. I got spit roasted a couple of times. On this occasion it was explained to me afterwards that if you want to flag, loot a yellow wreck, do not shoot it. The fact that I had to change my safety from green to red should have imparted a clue. But Nooblers going to Noob no matter what. I blame my (at the time) hazy understanding of PVP in HiSec in that prior to that I had spent a month in NullSec. > **[Orthrus | Orbit Arbosa | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/64366473/)** > > Orbit Arbosa (Sebiestor Tribe) lost their Orthrus in Isenairos (The Citadel) Total Value: 243,189,217.40 ISK This one was an “experiment” in that Does Concord really really care? > **[Thorax | Orbit Arbosa | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/64648003/)** > > Orbit Arbosa (Sebiestor Tribe) lost their Thorax in Isenairos (The Citadel) Total Value: 19,116,964.11 ISK Why yes! CONCORD does care! WTF? Whatever man. ---
**Author:** ![Orbit\_Arbosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orbit_arbosa/32/147685_2.png) [@Orbit\_Arbosa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orbit_Arbosa)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/7 "2018-01-27T00:12:29Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > [@Orbit\_Arbosa](#): > > > > I saw a BitterVet complaining in local that the Noob cussing him did not understand that this was competition and the Noob should understand this. > > The “bittervet” wasn’t wrong. Every part of Eve is competitive, the whole game is designed around being in a state of constant competition with others. > > You should also know that noob is considered to be offensive to new players, newb(ie) or newbro isn’t. > \<.img src=‘[//cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/3/5314ab29dbc6763882cf4c3a9ed940710c6ba7ac.jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/3/5314ab29dbc6763882cf4c3a9ed940710c6ba7ac.jpg)’\> Haha. Funny. I did not get upset about being called a Noob (because it was true). And i am not going to get upset if I still get called a Noob (because it is probably true too) YMMV Whatever Man. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/8 "2018-01-27T01:06:44Z")
Except shooting them if they are not suspect will only go into their cards. High-sec sites stealing is unfair. If they have better ship and they always have you cannot compete and you cannot shoot them. Shooting them will result in: - loosing your ship - making the “griefer” laugh at your stupidity - giving the “griefer” kill right so he can hunt you next 30 days and kill you anywhere in highsec without concord intervention There is no problem with this in lowsec because you can initiate a fight (even when you are going to lose it because you fly t1 cruiser and they brought t2 or even t3) whereas in highsec you will get immediately killed by concord (no PvE ship can kill another PvE ship, not even in 0.5 before concord arrives). I don’t understand why are they doing it. Due to mechanics in highsec, if something is griefing, I would say this is it. Bringing t2/t3/faction cruiser with 20m+ sp to steal a Gurista’s Hideaway in 0.9 from the guy flying Caracal, how heroic. If you have these ships why don’t you go into low sec and try stealing sites there? At least, if you intent to provoke the victim to pvp, get suspect flag. But we all know you are too scared to warp with your 1b tengu into Gurista Hideaway with suspect right? (note this is generally speaking, not directed on Old\_Pervert) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/9 "2018-01-27T01:26:57Z")
Site “stealing” happened to me twice tonight while I was educating one of my new players. A Legion came into the Den we were on and tried to get us to agress by creating yellow wrecks and bumping my new wingman as he retreived the MTU before it could be shot. I explained what the guy was trying to do and gave the Legion a hearty 07 and left him to enjoy his three wrecks. (Loot cans actually because I salvaged them anyway) Second time was on a scanned site as a t3 destroyer blitzed its way through to the final room after wed cleared thr first two. Again, I explained what he was doing and we were able to sensibly withdraw and look for another site. At the end of the day my new player learned a lot, especially that theres always new sites and always ninjas. We lost nothing, they gained at best nothing in the first instance and a 3/10 drop in the second for having a faster ship. I dont feel it was unfair, the second player was playing smart. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/10 "2018-01-27T01:47:51Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > unfair There’s no concept of fair in Eve; fairness only exists when all parties agree upon set rules, or when someone screws up. Eve has the nickname Everyone vs Everyone for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/11 "2018-01-27T02:51:25Z")
does highsec even have sites worth running? anyways contesting sites is likely to happen be prepared for it to happen, and don’t get upset when it does happen. If someone is nice and warps out, well cool. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/12 "2018-01-27T03:03:19Z")
It is technically unfair. It is unfair not because other players but because of the EVE mechanics. That is something else than unfairness in player-created content and I believe it should be adressed. It is similar issue to the citadel repairing not affected by TiDi. ---
**Author:** ![Memphis\_Baas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/memphis_baas/32/10413_2.png) [@Memphis\_Baas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Memphis_Baas)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/13 "2018-01-27T03:08:34Z")
It’s similar to high-level players killing “grey” NPCs in a newbie zone. I suppose other MMO’s “handle” it by giving no XP or loot, and also with fast respawn rates, whereas EVE does not, because there are no “levels.” ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/14 "2018-01-27T03:28:13Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > It is technically unfair. It is unfair not because other players but because of the EVE mechanics. That is something else than unfairness in player-created content and I believe it should be adressed. It is similar issue to the citadel repairing not affected by TiDi. They removed static ded sites and put them into probing and escalations from anomolies which made them much “fairer”. in the old system there was one telescope in 1 place, and there were players who knew when it was going to respawn. This current system rewards learning how to complete the content faster with both more time to search, and less contests for loot, and does a pretty good job imo of introducing players to the concept of competitive play, without making the worst case scenario that you have to fight against the same overpowered camping player all the time a thing. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/15 "2018-01-27T03:36:11Z")
> [@Kathern\_Aurilen](#): > > I usually bounce out or sit and watch a while if a site is occupied, depending on their technic This 100%. It’s basically common courtesy and if it’s a new player, I know I can easily find another site much more quickly then they can. Now if someone barges in on a site I’m running and tries to complete it and get the Boss loot before me, I just trigger the spawns since I already know the site, quickly get the loot and warp out leaving him Rat Pack swamped. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/16 "2018-01-27T04:23:30Z")
Well this didn’t remove the problem, just made it less likely to happen. I am not sure what would be the solution, maybe setting some owner flag on the site for first person arriving or jumping through first acceleration gate and anyone not in fleet/corp with the owner would trigger limited engagement to the owner. EDIT: to limit poential abuses the owner flag would disappear when the owner would use cloak and it would have only limited duration and would work only as long as owner is inside the site, if he leaves the flag drops immediately. It would probably end the same way as it ends now, but at least he would be able to fight for the site if he choose to do and won’t trigger the concord consequences. It would actually be a real choice as currently, shooting the neutral non suspect site stealer in high-sec isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Orbit\_Arbosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orbit_arbosa/32/147685_2.png) [@Orbit\_Arbosa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orbit_Arbosa)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/17 "2018-01-27T04:41:14Z")
> [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](#): > > does highsec even have sites worth running? I would say so (but then as a Noob I would, would I not?) I run DED 4/10 sites and lately DED 5/10 sites for a living and to buy skill injectors. The Isk is not as great as when I was in NullSec, where I was running Havens continuously. But in HiSec I am not continuously watching over my shoulder concerned that someone is going to warp in and blow my pwecious ratting ship to kingdom come. Like this: > **[Vexor Navy Issue | Orbit Arbosa | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/61989050/)** > > Orbit Arbosa (Black Diamond Investments) lost their Vexor Navy Issue in G5ED-Y (Vale of the Silent). Final Blow by My Ta 6oP (Center for Advanced Studies) flying in a Magus. Total Value: 186,932,773.14 ISK Of course if you did not fleet up and you are ratting 15 jumps away for your nearest corp member there is no point in calling for help. Never mind as soon as I saw them in local, just this once I could not be bothered to dock up or even align … _shrug_ Nooblers going to Noob man. No cure for stupid. Anyway, I like HiSec but even so I plan to go back to NullSec at some point. Likely when I am at 50million SP. Who knows though? I would have to join a Corp. And I like flying solo. ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/18 "2018-01-27T04:42:27Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Well this didn’t remove the problem, just made it less likely to happen. I am not sure what would be the solution, maybe setting some owner flag on the site for first person arriving or jumping through first acceleration gate and anyone not in fleet/corp with the owner would trigger limited engagement to the owner. it isn’t a problem. Its an introduction to competitive play in eve, without forcing your competitive play to permanently gateway you from loot (ie sometimes nobody will find it before you finish), and without forcing you to fight the same perfectly optimised camper all the time. The design of these encounters is perfect for their role. > [@](#): > > EDIT: to limit poential abuses the owner flag would disappear when the owner would use cloak and it would have only limited duration and would work only as long as owner is inside the site, if he leaves the flag drops immediately. > > It would probably end the same way as it ends now, but at least he would be able to fight for the site if he choose to do and won’t trigger the concord consequences. It would actually be a real choice as currently, shooting the neutral non suspect site stealer in high-sec isn’t. Goes against the design of exploration content, and the design of eve. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/19 "2018-01-27T04:48:13Z")
With regards to anomaly stealing, who gets the escalation when it happens? The person who destroys the last ship? Or does everyone get it? ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579/20 "2018-01-27T04:50:51Z")
person who destroy last ship or if the escalation is triggered by blasting a structure, than that [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-apparently-do-not-appreciate-the-1-carebear-rule-in-hisec-warpout-if-someone-is-already-there/53579.md?page=2)