# Bittervets vs carebears: Wardec rebalance edition **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363 "2018-11-05T08:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tater-nuts](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tater-nuts/32/189043_2.png) [@Tater-nuts](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tater-nuts)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/61 "2018-11-05T20:45:32Z")
To be honest, structure owners are getting screwed more than any other group from this “fix”. Non structure players get a free pass to tons of no risk activity. War dec corps get a slight nerf only by the target pool becoming slightly smaller. Structure owners on the other hand get a giant bull’s eye painted on them, because they own a structure and are the only ones that are able to be war dec’d. Some structures are pathetically weak to defend, so maybe a buff to structures is in order. I do have a question though: If Corp A (owning no structure) declares war against Corp B which owns a structure, will Corp C be able to ally and help Corp B or will they be prevented from helping because Corp A owns no structure? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/63 "2018-11-05T20:50:26Z")
> [@Predvodnica\_LSG](#): > > I’m not ashamed of myself I love myself and I am proud of myself 😊 Another sign for narcissism are repeated self-references, talking about oneself, seeking advantages for oneself, seeking credit, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/64 "2018-11-05T20:53:33Z")
That’s because I’m entitled, and I’m not afraid. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/65 "2018-11-05T21:16:50Z")
How bout everyone just comes together to make a decent wardeck/merc mechanic instead of just bitching about someone being a carebear, a pvper or wardeck scum? k thx bye ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/66 "2018-11-05T21:19:01Z")
FACT: if social corps become a regular thing in eve it WILL effect the economy and it is also NOT the best applicable way to resolve any issues with the current mechanic. Neither will the newest item on the list set to ‘resolve’ them; turning it into a structure based platform. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/67 "2018-11-05T21:26:13Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > if social corps become a regular thing in eve it WILL effect the economy and it is also NOT the best applicable way to resolve any issues with the current mechanic. True, but only if you’re assuming that the current economic is perfect. If we’re going to accept wardecs need changing, then we’ll also have to accept their influence on the economy in the past may also not have been accepted (and only tolerated), and what we then end up with may not be a bad economy, but a corrected economy. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/68 "2018-11-05T21:27:27Z")
The only real reason for a wardeck within in New Eden IS to effect the economy tbh; but usually only that corps. Well not the only one but the only good one, for example miners mining what you consider to be your territory or taking the ded sites or well you get the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/69 "2018-11-05T21:32:36Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > So with the initial changes coming december and the knowledge we currently have. How do you think this will play out in the end? > > Will we see the bittervets continue to moan about how EvE has gotten soft and how it all was better in the old days, while the carebears rejoice about how finally CCP has heard their cries and how eve enters a new era of peaceful prosperity and cooperation? > > Or will we see a future where highsec structures will be burning all over highsec, increasing the barrier of entry to setup a citadel in highsec, resulting in the carebears returning to the forums with their cries on how it is so hard for the “little guy” and how the wardec mechanic should be further nerfed? > > Or maybe we will see something completely different? I would like both. The 2 are not exclusive. Structure killing can have its own system and mechanics while killing wardecced players can have entirely different one and stay separate. I would love to see more structures killed, while also return PvP to PvP instead of just shooting ships that can’t shoot back or newbs that for for the most part might as well not even be able to fit guns. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/70 "2018-11-05T21:39:05Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > The only real reason for a wardeck within in New Eden IS to effect the economy tbh; but usually only that corps. We might actually get just that! The way we have structures growing all over high-sec has caused a boom in ice mining. It’s quite profitable and you’ll find many alt mining fleets every 4 hours in the belts. With the change may we see a lower demand for ice as it is now, we may see more ice miners in the belts due to less wardecs, causing overall a drop in the value of ice. This is already happening. On the other hand will moon mining become more profitable, because less players will be mining moons. So wardecs could indeed become more of an economy tool when moon mining becomes more profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/71 "2018-11-05T21:40:10Z")
it will depreciate the value of moon mining in highsec further i imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/72 "2018-11-05T21:50:02Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > it will depreciate the value of moon mining in highsec further i imagine. You think so? I was wondering if we might not see a shift towards Athanor and Tatara refineries getting blown up like mining ships. Once wars can only be declared on corps with structures and because it’s not a simple task to find a corp’s structures, might we see wardecs being declared against the structures, meaning, first find a structure then find it’s owner. A primary pick for such a selection method would be Athanors anchored at moons. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/73 "2018-11-05T21:53:52Z")
Only if sovblocs decide to take them i think. The people that have been doing that already will simply continue to do so but i dunno… lets for example say im in goons but i have an alt mining army… i putup a citadel in goons name, mine with my alt army that cant be decked? Id say goons were probably a bad example considering what you can mine in delve but you get the general idea. Similarly if i put up an athanor in hs and some ‘social corp’ decides to mine it all, there is not a lot i can do about it. I realise they could do this within npc corp but that requires more organisation. Lowsec pirate groups that i dunno greif people in highsec too… again; no way to deal with them via war… WH eviction if i want to try and stop things moving around in highsec as they try to evac or bring gear in… null bloc hauling corps… allsorts of stuff im thinking; true many can be done within npc corp - but not nearly as efficiently. I just dont think its a good idea because i see these as strong design flaws. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/74 "2018-11-05T21:54:24Z")
Actually, the stats from adam4eve.eu show a decrease in citadels in HS since earlier this year, engineering complexes have already peaked and are falling, although I can’t seem to get it split by sec areas. Agree that any “permanant” fix will take a long time and should ( but probably won’t) bounce ideas off of people other than the CSM and Discord. Whatever, is decided, CCP needs to realize that people will set out and exploit any discovered flaws on the first day, part of the reason I enjoy the game. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/75 "2018-11-05T21:59:50Z")
Playing chess with a foe that tries to exploit every weakness is generally far better than playing with someone who always loses in the first 4 moves. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/76 "2018-11-05T22:02:31Z")
basically i fully believe any mechanics implemented after the change to balance social corps will probably render the structure thing pointless anyway. I also believe that implementing this change only shifts the balance of power more in favour of the larger groups and isnt at all a well balanced solution. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/77 "2018-11-05T22:08:30Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > lets for example say im in goons but i have an alt mining army… i putup a citadel in goons name, mine with my alt army that cant be decked? Yeah, about that. I was wondering if players might not just more often ransack moon ores. It doesn’t belong to anyone until it’s mined. Alt mining fleets might just show up at random without needing to own a station. What then matters is compression and refining and therefore access rights, but many give access to public. It depends on how much ice and asteroid ore devalue. Ice has been falling by as much as 20% over the last couple of weeks since the announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/78 "2018-11-05T22:14:30Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > I also believe that implementing this change only shifts the balance of power more in favour of the larger groups and isnt at all a well balanced solution. I hope they don’t make it a requirement to own a structure before one can declare a war. I love the idea for poor corps being able to punch upwards. Fairness is good, but considering how high-sec is a birth place for small corps would this help to spark more conflict, especially when it’s coming from fresh, new players. ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/79 "2018-11-05T22:16:06Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > I also believe that implementing this change only shifts the balance of power more in favour of the larger groups and isnt at all a well balanced solution. Word. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/80 "2018-11-05T22:16:30Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > I hope they don’t make it a requirement to own a structure before one can declare a war. That also wont be an issue for many older players, it doesnt take long to simply swap ownership of a structure, dec people to burn all their stuff then swap it again to be dec immune. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/81 "2018-11-05T22:20:00Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > That also wont be an issue for many older players, it doesnt take long to simply swap ownership of a structure, dec people to burn all their stuff then swap it again to be dec immune. CCP did mention structure transfers as a side note. So I’m assuming they’ll be aware of it and plan to solve this. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363.md?page=5)