# Bittervets vs carebears: Wardec rebalance edition **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363 "2018-11-05T08:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/162 "2018-11-30T17:43:56Z")
If it’s not a problem then there is no issue with securing it from becoming a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/163 "2018-11-30T17:45:36Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > If it’s not a problem then there is no issue with securing it from becoming a problem. Now you’re playing dumb. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/164 "2018-11-30T17:56:11Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Without a scale based cost for the discrepancy in attack vs defender size or scaling cost of repeated Wardeccing there is relatively no penalty for a piracy corp squishing small targets. indeed. make wardec lock recruitement in the wardeccing corporation/alliance and the cost be 50M per wadeccer. Also add those 50M per ton on the wardeccer toons bounty, once the wardeccing corp/alliance lost those 50\*toons M in bounty (from any pvp source of loss), wardec is over and lost for wardeccer unless reciprocal. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/165 "2018-11-30T18:01:08Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Small corps that want to have their own Raitaru to call home already have the investment costs and fuel cost they have to debate, while worrying about defending it against competing corporations. Those competing corporations will generally be the ones contracting the mercenaries that are trying to kill yours. If your operating budget doesn’t cover defence you cant afford the Raitaru in the first place. Legalised piracy, or Privateering as it is correctly known, is actually an apt description. It requires a letter of marque from a recognised authority, in Eve that authority is Concord, the letter of marque being paid for with the wardec fee, much as in real life it was paid for with money to the Monarch of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/166 "2018-11-30T18:15:00Z")
I see where you are coming from however privateering was used for faction vs faction warfare. Concord is not a controlling entity, merely a coalition policing force. Asking Amarr for a letter of marque to privateer against Caldari trading ships in their territory is a more apt version. Concord’s most basic function is to keep law and order. If they constantly took bribes from “Privateer” groups to attack legitimate traders in their own territory the major factions that control that territory would be having major issues with them not doing their job correctly. If a policing force constantly took bribes to look the other way while criminals robbed and pillaged, the people suffering would be in outrage, even if it’s just a perceived issue. Hence why you have carebears up in arms about the mechanics not protecting them as they believe they should. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/167 "2018-11-30T18:22:56Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Concord’s most basic function is to keep law and order. If they constantly took bribes from “Privateer” groups to attack legitimate traders in their own territory the major factions that control that territory would be having major issues with them not doing their job correctly. In effect that is exactly what a wardec is though, a payment to selectively not enforce the law. Concords role, lore wise, has always been to keep capsuleer conflict at a level that doesn’t directly threaten the stability of the empires. Which is what they do. That said, CCP dropped a teaser a while back suggesting that the empires grip on control is slipping. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/168 "2018-11-30T18:34:11Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > In effect that is exactly what a wardec is though, a payment to selectively not enforce the law. Concords role, lore wise, has always been to keep capsuleer conflict at a level that doesn’t directly threaten the stability of the empires. Which is what they do. However, the mechanics of the wardeccing don’t take into account any political outcry from the victims of their bribes. That’s why they manifest themselves here or worse yet, players quitting. An escalation of cost exponentially based on how frequently the corporation is declaring war could simulate the mounting political pressure on Concord. > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > That said, CCP dropped a teaser a while back suggesting that the empires grip on control is slipping. As long as there is a policing force in place there would always be the bureaucracy and political aspects of allowing a sanctioned loss between two parties. In this game’s case, you can’t declare war on Concord for their corrupt ways or perceived injustices (although hilarious with Concord’s OP mechanics lol). ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/169 "2018-11-30T18:44:39Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Concord’s OP mechanics Which are the result of clever use of mechanics by one group, and political outcry by another. You used to be able to tank Concord, until some clever sod figured out a way to completely shut down a chokepoint while doing it. Wardec costs are already 2500% higher than they were in 2009, nearly all of the solo and small wardec corps have been amalgamated into the big 5 and associates through necessity. Recent changes resulted in most wardec corps turning into hub humpers by necessity, because targeted wardecs became very difficult to achieve outside of structure bashing. Proposed stopgaps restrict their targets even further, I’m not sure if structure bashing or hub humping is going to win out as a thing though. Hisec PvP has been beaten remorselessly with the nerf bat since at least 2009. When will enough be enough? ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/170 "2018-11-30T18:54:45Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > When will enough be enough? When PvPers cease preying on Highsec new players and carebears, which is the point of the constant escalation against it. If these “privateer” groups really wanted a PvP fight they would combat with similar groups and fight each other’s Upwells. Picking off small corporations in a 10 to 1 ratio is just farming, and in the eyes of the victim, not fun. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/171 "2018-11-30T19:01:13Z")
Yeah… Eve is not the game for you my friend. If you act like prey, you are likely to get eaten; and not by a Grue. Eve is as much a game about survival and loss as it is about friendship, spreadsheets, social engineering, strategy and spaceships. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/172 "2018-11-30T19:05:03Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > the eyes of the victim Delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/173 "2018-11-30T19:05:54Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > When will enough be enough? When people will have to pay as much as their target. You play in a game, where you are protected by concord which represents the law. Yet they can destroy your assets with a fraction of the cost of their ship, and paying a fraction of the time it required you to have them, while you can’t do anything to them. Nobody wants to play a game where he has no other possibility than being the prey. Still the mecanisms (of wardec or ganking) in HS. It’s not that ganking should be removed from the game. IT’s that the ability to gank should require as much efforts and be disrupted by the ganked as the ganked activity requires and can. ATM you can’t do anything because alts. If we could prevent ships/materials from being used eg by HS gankers, or if the gankers would required to defend a structure in order to be able to gank, basically if the ganked had a possibility to retaliate, then the game would not looks as much abused from a mecanisms point of view, then people may consider it is ok to adapt. Now you can replace all the “gankers” by “wardeccers” because it is exactly the same : they abuse the mecanisms, use alts to get informations and logistics, in order to only have benefit and avoid the issues that should come along. And that’s why people rather leave than play in that game : the mecanisms are abused by people whose interest in the game is to abuse other people. Then the game does not become a game anymore, just a burden. Why do gankers use catalysts ? because it’s the best damage/cost given the restriction of players. Because the game allows you to do so. Ganking is vital for eve online, but optimizing your gameplay in order to not suffer any consequence from the punishment the game ensures is deadly. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/174 "2018-11-30T19:12:15Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > but optimizing your gameplay in order to not suffer any consequence from the punishment the game ensures is deadly. This is the consequence of years of nerfing hisec PVP, ultra specialized groups that do only one thing, but do it all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/175 "2018-11-30T19:13:04Z")
That’s just a free affirmation without any basis. Or do you have some ? Seeing as how many people here mistake a correlation as a causation, I am not inclined to believe your on your words. Why are people abusing ? because nerfs. Why nerfs ? because people abusing. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/176 "2018-11-30T19:16:06Z")
Why do you think those groups specialized then? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/177 "2018-11-30T19:17:22Z")
just because you are not able to imagine something different, does not mean that what you think is truth. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/178 "2018-11-30T19:17:39Z")
that’s an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/179 "2018-11-30T19:18:16Z")
you argument is a logical fallacy. Thus, what you said is NOT an argument. Just as a side note, I don’t care at all about gankers and wardecs. I just give you different point of views because that’s what you are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/180 "2018-11-30T19:23:52Z")
I don’t care either, it became more difficult to casually gank people therefore some groups specialized. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363/181 "2018-11-30T19:26:05Z")
there is an implication in your post, that shows the same lack of basis as your previous one. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/bittervets-vs-carebears-wardec-rebalance-edition/118363.md?page=10)