# Brainstorming Blackops gameplay: How can it evolve and improve? **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** balance\ **Created:** [April 22, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429 "2019-04-22T20:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/21 "2019-04-24T00:10:49Z")
> [@Alphaphi](#): > > Make covert ops cynos lightable in highsec; this does not only add more options variety for players to engage in PVP in high-sec, but also gives gankers a new and different way of doing their thing. maybe ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Viderzei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_viderzei/32/256790_2.png) [@Sasha\_Viderzei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Viderzei)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/22 "2019-04-24T05:52:58Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > I don’t know how you fit your logi or why you would put capital remote reps on a small cruiser I never said anything about capital reps on a logi. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/23 "2019-04-26T14:09:41Z")
Fair point. They’re definitely not “cannons” like bombers, but they’re thin-skinned and (mostly) combat oriented, which still sets them apart from T3s (relative to class size). ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/24 "2019-04-29T06:58:09Z")
Black Ops really don’t live up too their namesake. Black Ops are supposed to get into an area do the damage and be long gone before the target even knows that it has been hit. Perhaps Black Ops should be retooled for Sov warfare and be given mechanics to reduce the time that it takes to drop a node. Dropping nodes at a faster rate will definitely open up more Sov warfare so that increased PvP takes place. Maybe Black Op ships should have a bonus to being pointed by Sov structures of -50% or the time that the point from a structure on a ship attacking it is reduced by %10 per level of the Black Ops skill trained. Maybe have enhanced bonuses to defend against structure EW and Energy Neut warfare along with providing a counter to structures systems such as reducing the Point Defense Battery Control rig by 25%. Granted a Black Ops won’t last long against a defense fleet but it would provide interesting game play when accompanying Dreds, Force Aux and Caps in the fight against a citadel. But the main retooling of the Black Ops would be Node Warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Alphaphi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alphaphi/32/27517_2.png) [@Alphaphi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alphaphi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/25 "2019-04-29T13:12:41Z")
The last thing we need, in my opinion, is more resources spend on sov warfare, especially retooling a class to fit that meta. Especially feeding them in to the capital and station-bash meta, that ■■■■ is already way too dominant. Rebalance them so they are competitive and can be used properly for what they are designed for. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/26 "2019-04-29T13:46:01Z")
We have ships that are bonused _against_ entosis warfare, but none bonused _for_ it. And it fits with their general role. I’ve got no specifics in mind, but I like the general concept. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/27 "2019-04-29T15:16:47Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Perhaps Black Ops should be retooled for Sov warfare and be given mechanics to reduce the time that it takes to drop a node. Dropping nodes at a faster rate will definitely open up more Sov warfare so that increased PvP takes place. One of your worst ideas yet, the number one problem with BLOP Fleet is hot drops from caps, so lets focus BLOPs on the area with the most caps. DUH! ---
**Author:** ![Nuuri\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nuuri_naarian/32/131735_2.png) [@Nuuri\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nuuri_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/28 "2019-04-29T19:41:16Z")
this is something iv been thinking about deeply for a few weeks. When it comes to identifying where b-ops should be, i really think we should redefine all covert-ships. This is what i see at the moment (my current thoughts) All cloak ships can use covert-cloak **Covert-ops** Role: -50% Scan time on probes Bonus: + Strength on scan (plus the relic etc stuff) 10-15k Cargo, Cyno bonus’s “Cannot be seen in local chat unless it talks” why the changes? shifting covert-ops into a role of transporting the fuel, setting up the cyno’s, and quickly finding the targets gives them significant benefit to the covert fleet. basically they will be able to locate targets quickly, and will offer itself an excellent option for hot drops after it located targets. **Bombers** Amarr/Gallente + 1 low Caldari/minmatar + 1 medium explosion velocity benefit increased from 10% to 20% **Combat Recon** These need module slot buffs, and significantly more damage, potentially in the place of removing the ewar style concepts from them and turning them into cloaky-hacks Remove Cyno related buffs **Why these changes?** Recons have been out of play for a while, so buffing combat damage would significantly improve the ships lethality, and the lethal nature of the covert group. **Force Recon** Create a new type of module that is used to decloak objects with in 50km, or see them. Ewar based ships A new anti-cloak will help decloak on grid cloak ships. its a step in the direction to counter-cloak game play Covert-Logistics (new cruiser class) Cloak-logistics ships having cloak-warpable logistics would be a good addition to commiting for longer-term battles with covert-gangs **Black Ops** Obtains Covert Cloak More agility, and base speed Ability to equip capital weapons Bonus’s to capital and large weapons. Removal of Ewar Bonus’s. Ability to equip assault damage control Why these changes? High damage on the ships will provide more lethality and danger factor to dropping something and removing it quickly. Capital level weapons will provide significant buffs to B-ops killing potential for rorq’s, and capitals. Adding damage assault module will give them limited tank, help counter the lack of t2 resist rates, but still keep them in a glass cannon role on the longer scale of battles. Remove cyno related buffs ---
**Author:** ![Nuuri\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nuuri_naarian/32/131735_2.png) [@Nuuri\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nuuri_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/29 "2019-04-29T19:43:44Z")
I’d also like to see a covert-ops capital called “Capital”. I think it should provide very large jump ranges on covert ops, say 30 ly It should have carrier like characteristics, but should be slightly weaker in place of cloak-warp capability. I’d also like to see a medium (small) structure that has only 1 defensive module slot, that cloaks the station, seen only to members that limits its docking to cloak-based ships. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/30 "2019-04-29T20:49:28Z")
It’s not the BLOPs ships (except Widow), it’s the other guys ships which is a fleet of caps. Anytime you are in low you have to be prepared for a full on caps fleet. Caps made BLOPs obsolete. No stat adjustment changes that. ---
**Author:** ![Alphaphi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alphaphi/32/27517_2.png) [@Alphaphi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alphaphi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/31 "2019-04-30T12:57:57Z")
It’s somewhat also BLOPs in themself. The balancing of other ships, and powercreep on new ships means that you either have to do a super overkill drop, or not do it at all. With the current lack of tools to have a more secure grid presence, they’re still stuck at dropping ratters, bots and indies as they’re primarily used for now. IF an encounter escalates, it rarely goes in the favour of the blops, capital escalation or not. But Capitals is far by the worst factor in making blops obsolete. Back when capitals and titans werent considered an everymans asset, it was entirely different though. ---
**Author:** ![Alphaphi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alphaphi/32/27517_2.png) [@Alphaphi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alphaphi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/32 "2019-04-30T13:23:58Z")
The assault damage control might actually be a reasonable proposal, maybe even exchange the cloaked speed bonus for increased ADC duration, or reduced reactivation delay? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/33 "2019-04-30T13:47:14Z")
> [@Alphaphi](#): > > Black ops as a whole, not just the ship class, is stagnant and lacking. Excuse me, but was there actually a time when Black Ops didn’t suck? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/34 "2019-04-30T14:46:40Z")
The ships have always been “weaker” as a trade off for surprise, but not to an extent that made them useless. ---
**Author:** ![Alphaphi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alphaphi/32/27517_2.png) [@Alphaphi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alphaphi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/35 "2019-04-30T14:48:11Z")
They had their prime, and my old corp/alliance were dedicated to this stuff. but that was back in the days capitals werent something everyone and their mother owned. We could harass and do enough damage to people, that we could force them to pay to stay in their space/pay for us to stay away. ---
**Author:** ![Nuuri\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nuuri_naarian/32/131735_2.png) [@Nuuri\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nuuri_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/36 "2019-05-01T02:01:07Z")
Problem with the covert ships is they really do not have a role, its sort of loose ish. The most defined of them are bombers, and the most unique option of them is the bridge from b-ops. Out side of that what are they really offering other then warping cloaked? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/37 "2019-05-01T02:21:46Z")
> [@Nuuri\_Naarian](#): > > Out side of that what are they really offering other then warping cloaked? Mining, exploration, cloaky hunting, scouting, intel gathering, covert cyno, wormhole play in general. Covert ships (since this is a broader question than the actual thread topic) are one of the most versatile ships in the game. Including gas harvesting, ice mining and PVE to PVP. They have a role in a lot of gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Nuuri\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nuuri_naarian/32/131735_2.png) [@Nuuri\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nuuri_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/38 "2019-05-01T08:03:05Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Covert ships (since this is a broader question than the actual thread topic) are one of the most versatile ships in the game. Again i ask, out side of warping cloaked, what do they offer that is unique?. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Nuuri\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nuuri_naarian/32/131735_2.png) [@Nuuri\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nuuri_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/39 "2019-05-01T08:09:36Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Mining, exploration, cloaky hunting, scouting, intel gathering, covert cyno, wormhole play in general. Hunting? What is that? Is there deer running around somewhere? When did we get a hunting game in eve? > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > scouting, Interceptors do this, not covertops > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > intel gathering You mean like, jump in covert ops and spy?! #role play > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > wormhole play in general. No, Just no. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Mining Prospects mines, Covert-ops ships do not, even out side of this point and talking about the over all class of warp-cloakable ships, only one of the mines, AND THATS NOT UNIQUE. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > exploration Many ships explore > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > covert cyno Opening a jump portal, woohoo! so amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429/40 "2019-05-01T14:52:19Z")
> [@Nuuri\_Naarian](#): > > Again i ask, out side of warping cloaked, what do they offer that is unique?. Nothing. He answered your question you just CHOOSE to quote a different part of his response in your typically dishonest and argumentive style. > [@Nuuri\_Naarian](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/9/79b2215ecb168f070ad289a7671d0745a854dfc6.jpeg) Scipio\_Artelius: > > > Mining, exploration, cloaky hunting, scouting, intel gathering, covert cyno, wormhole play in general. > > Hunting? What is that? Is there deer running around somewhere? > When did we get a hunting game in eve? Another example of you being a troll. > [@Nuuri\_Naarian](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/9/79b2215ecb168f070ad289a7671d0745a854dfc6.jpeg) Scipio\_Artelius: > > > scouting, > > Interceptors do this, not covertops Do you even play the game? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/brainstorming-blackops-gameplay-how-can-it-evolve-and-improve/154429.md?page=3)