# Broken Pirating and Ganking with no Counter **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [December 5, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974 "2023-12-05T00:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/22 "2023-12-08T01:54:49Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > Structure defense. What ganker can bother anchoring a 2 bil isk asset over 24 hours to do something that a 1m isk slasher could do just as well and w/o requiring a day setup. On the gates ? Seems like you did not read my question properly. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/23 "2023-12-08T09:02:38Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > On the gates ? Seems like you did not read my question properly because this specific part does not make sense … nobody uses fstandup fighters in HS to decloak … ---
**Author:** ![Eney\_Issier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eney_issier/32/472040_2.png) [@Eney\_Issier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eney_Issier)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/24 "2023-12-08T14:40:30Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > looks like afk hauling is out of control and nothing can be done about it… 🤣 Perhaps adding “You shall not autopilot in eve … nevah evah” to the newbie tips or a tutorial with following little content: NPC: “here a destination, autopilot to it”; route has three systems, Player engages autopilot at second gate a macharial appears and in player local channel “You shall not pass” pops up and macharial wrecks ship and send player to clone vat. After that agent says thanks for tryin plus not crying here take this isk and a fresh corvet. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/25 "2023-12-08T15:33:20Z")
It’s not the newbies that get salty when they get wrecked while afk-hauling, though. It’s the veterans that get salty their highsec afk-hauling alts and get wrecked, and it’s also the vets that yeet their JFs because they’re well too experienced to still bother what happens around them. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/26 "2023-12-08T15:48:47Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > when they get wrecked while afk-hauling That’s off-topic though. > [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > well too experienced to still bother what happens around them. You mean, who have a life and can’t afford to recreate a new business model from scratch when CCP changes the rules ? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/27 "2023-12-08T18:51:02Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You mean, who have a life and can’t afford to recreate a new business model from scratch when CCP changes the rules ? Nobody needs to do that. The only thing you have to do is reading patch notes and combine 1+1. Then you chose an exit system with a HS-gate where it is quiet and close to noone is in local when you bring your JF out. The last JF kill in Hysera for example was in… July, thats months without a Lancer Camp there. And I found that out in like 30 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/28 "2023-12-08T20:52:41Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > and combine 1+1 1+1 = 2 that’s a definition. You are claiming that changing your whole business model when CCP changes the rules is as easy as applying a definition. That’s completely stupid, for at the very least the fact that the definition is changed each time. One time 1+1=2, another one 10, another one 0, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/29 "2023-12-08T22:05:21Z")
Thats a lot of rhetoric to dodge the simple fact that adaptation to the “new rules” (aka Lancers) is absolutely easy and in no way anyone needs to change “his whole business model” even in the slightest. It is in fact as easy as 1+1 because the only thing you need is to know that definition. In case of JFs you only need to select your exit system more careful and thats it. In _any_ other environment people are advised that you _never_ use a capital ship solo, be it a dread or carrier or super unless you have heavy support ready to save you in case of an ambush. Thats why people usually only do that under a cyno-umbrella in nullsec. Nobody would have any mercy with someone who loses his solo-dread to a pirate group, or if someone jumps in his bling marauder into a gatecamp and dies. But JF-pilots feel entitled to use their 10b Tech2 Freighter solo just with an CynoAlt in LowSec and expect to be pretty much invulnerable like under the previous mechanics. Thats _ridiculous_. The “new rules” were completely overdue and it is a good change that you have now ways to trap those who lack attention and preparation. If you are unable to do that, maybe you simply shouldn’t fly such an expensive ship or accept the fact that you will lose it from time to time to player groups that are quite a bit smarter and better prepared than you are. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/30 "2023-12-08T22:11:15Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats a lot of rhetoric to dodge the simple fact that adaptation to the “new rules” (aka Lancers) is absolutely easy That’s a lot of BS just to dodge the issue. > [@Syzygium](#): > > In case of JFs you only need to select your exit system more careful and thats it. That’s not applying a definition. > [@Syzygium](#): > > The “new rules” were completely overdue and it is a good change that you have now ways to trap those who lack attention and preparation. That’s not applying the definition. That’s, on the opposite, having an activity that was possible before and is no more now. If your sole answer to any problem in Eve is “use more alts”, which was your answer here, then you have a serious mental issue. Any change of the game that requires to have more alts for the same activity is a bad one. You can talk about “friends” but the reality is, alts is all you can trust - and even them can be disconnected from the server. And yes, all the other answers here are the same. “have more alts, to scout, to web, to defend”. All those answers imply that there is no need for balance, for strategy, for anything, and that the only thing that matters in Eve is your number of alts. The need for alts in itself is a cancer for Eve. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/31 "2023-12-08T23:32:14Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > And yes, all the other answers here are the same. “have more alts, to scout, to web, to defend”. All those answers imply that there is no need for balance, for strategy, for anything, and that the only thing that matters in Eve is your number of alts. > The need for alts in itself is a cancer for Eve. not really, I use Push X to do my hauling. It is very comfortable. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You can talk about “friends” but the reality is, alts is all you can trust I collaborate with my fellow ganker colleages all the time, we fully trust each others in the salt harvesting endeavor. How hard is to ask someone to help you? If you dont want, Push X, or split your cargo at the choke point. Dont be a greedy bear with billions in cargo to skip some extra jumps when splitting your stuff. Ganking got already nerfed to the ground, get over it, dont make me call @Brisc_Rubal to discuss this area. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/32 "2023-12-08T23:37:31Z")
LOL. No > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s a lot of BS just to dodge the issue. There is no “issue”. You begin to split hairs over semantics because you don’t want to accept that dealing with lancers is one of the easiest tasks an EVE player can be confronted with. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s not applying a definition. I don’t care if it is, the intention of my wording is absolutely obvious: dealing with Lancers is easy. But please, go on splitting hairs, it won’t score you a point. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s on the opposite, having an activity that was possible before and is no more now. That simply not true. The activity of bringing JFs from Lowsec to Highsec is still possible. And it’s still pretty safe. And doable solo with your own cyno alt. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > If your sole answer to any problem in Eve is “use more alts”, which was your answer here, then you have a serious mental issue. I haven’t said such a thing. What I said and always say is “deal with the realitiy that other people cooperate in a multiplayer game and that they professionalize in trying to kill you, if you want to survive against them do the same and don’t expect to win a confrontation going in solo”. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Any change of the game that requires to have more alts for the same activity is a bad one. Such a change hasn’t been made. You can still do what you have done all the time just with your JF pilot and your cyno alt. Nobody forces you to bring more, just pay attention and scout properly if you want to move an unarmed multibillion ISK ship around solo. As it would be expected from everyone else everywhere else. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You can talk about “friends” but the reality is, alts is all you can trust - and even them can be disconnected from the server. > > And yes, all the other answers here are the same. “have more alts, to scout, to web, to defend”. All those answers imply that there is no need for balance, for strategy, for anything, and that the only thing that matters in Eve is your number of alts. > The need for alts in itself is a cancer for Eve. I never said that. I feel sad for your if you really think you can trust no one, because trust is an investment and it pays off a thousand times in fun when flying with other people, relying on them to do their job and reap the success together. And you are completely wrong about your assumptions about balance and strategy, because the existance of ganking and other groups cooperating to catch you even ALLOWS for using different stategies to deal with this problem, allows to trick them, to mess up their plans, to bait them or to dodge them, depending what your goal is. Some of it is achievable solo, some only by group play. But it all makes the game richer and less boring than some invincibility-mechanics that simply promote brain-afk soloplay. There are enough other games out there one can play to be a solo-tycoon, EVE should always reward cooperation, strategy and tactics. And so far, the gankers show to be pretty good at these tasks, so their rewards are well earned. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/33 "2023-12-08T23:37:33Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s on the opposite, having an activity that was possible before and is no more now. Oh, I remember the JF players applauding the scarcity changes that assured industrials couldn’t get all the ores they wanted from the local miners but were forced to pay JF services. I’m also well aware how they they all brag about how immortal they feel and how futile an attempt to grab them would be. Your business model is scamming your alliance by buying in competitive Highsec markets and selling at a significantly higher rate in low volume markets in your alliances’ null. CCP never made something that spoiled that buisness. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > CCP changes the rules ? The rules are made by the players. AFK Miners that offend the oldest of all rules, namely “no permit, no ship” are facing the same penalty they always faced. If you dock at a station for downtime, and log in again after DT to continue your trip just to find out that CCP decided it was a good time to catapult the station along with you and your JF inside of it into povchen, rendering the JF unusable, _then_ you can complain about CCP’s interference with your buisness, not if you willingfully ignore a hostile dreadnaught next to you. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/34 "2023-12-09T01:00:43Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > I feel sad for your if you really think you can trust no one Well it’s a game, it’s normal for other people to do something else of their life. > [@Syzygium](#): > > some invincibility-mechanics that simply promote brain-afk soloplay. This does not exist. JF could still be attacked when undocking. What promotes brain AFK gameplay is the fact that your actions have no impact once you are in HS. Jump, jump, jump… > [@Syzygium](#): > > EVE should always reward cooperation No. No in the sense of “more alts”. > [@Syzygium](#): > > And so far, the gankers are favored by the “bring more alts” gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/35 "2023-12-09T01:27:19Z")
@Syzygium discuss with him is worthless because if he cant argue against you while his logis isnt good then he´s creating offtopics and tryijng to turn your own words into your mouth ! you can see that he dont want a real discussion, he´s only trolling and want to say anything against you ! > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > 1+1 = 2 that’s a definition. and this definition makes the rules ! CCP change the rules does not mean it chanes the result ! it only changes the way you get to your result … in this case this does not mean 1+1 = 2 instead 3-1=2 ! > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You are claiming that changing your whole business model when CCP changes the rules he dont claim this xD is CCP changes anything then you only need to read the details and you can adapt … this doesnt mean you need to change your whole buisness model oO > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s completely stupid, i agree … your posts are completly stupid ! > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > fact that the definition is changed each time. One time 1+1=2, another one 10, another one 0, etc. no … as i said before its not the definition that changes ! its the way which changes and not the result ! > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s a lot of BS just to dodge the issue. there is only 1 issue, that you bring a lot of worthless BS into the discussion ! ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/36 "2023-12-09T02:52:17Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Well it’s a game, it’s normal for other people to do something else of their life. You can of course play the game as you like, but you are simply missing most of the games joy if you insist to do everyting “on your own because you can’t trust anyone”. And for sure a multiplayer game shouldn’t be designed around such solo-paranoia ideas. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > This does not exist. JF could still be attacked when undocking. Yeah? And then? It just clicks “dock” and is safe again. No JF pilot with a brain docks at a station where he is outside docking range when undocking. JFs were de-facto uncatchable if the pilot wasn’t a complete monkey or had a disconnect in the middle of space. There was simply no tactic the hunters could use to lure him into a trap. Now they can, and some JF pilots fall for it. Pretty nice thing. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > No. No in the sense of “more alts”. Nobody is forceing you to bring “more alts”. You can bring friends or dodge the guys with all their alts by delaying your activity. Every miner or missionrunner has to do the same if gankers are in the vincinity. Else they might die. So either use force and fight them or, if you cannot or want not do that, avoid being caught by staying docked or moving to another area. You are _not_ entitled to use your ship anywhere anytime without others having the chance to kill you if they can catch you. Deal with it, anyone else has to deal with it too. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > are favored by the “bring more alts” gameplay. They aren’t favored to a degree that you cannot deal with them any more. All the big professional hauling corps are proof, all the people that successfully bring their freighters from Amarr to Jita without being ganked are proof of that. Gankers catch only the lazy and the dumb and that is absolutely no problem in a game with some tactical and strategical depth. If you get ganked, its 100% your fault because you made multiple mistakes prior to your ship loss. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/37 "2023-12-09T12:01:38Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > And for sure a multiplayer game shouldn’t be designed around such solo-paranoia ideas. It’s not paranoia, it’s the game design. People can not be here when you need them, for personal reasons. So you _need_ to have alts available. Any important action that requires activity of several players NEEDS to have alts for those activities available. If you can’t have alts, the day other players can’t help you you are screwed. Calling that paranoia is stupid. > [@Syzygium](#): > > It just clicks “dock” and is safe again. Unless he is already dead. > [@Syzygium](#): > > JFs were de-facto uncatchable if the pilot wasn’t a complete monkey Prove that all JF that died were piloted by monkeys. Otherwise it’s BS. And learn to explain without exageration. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Nobody is forceing you to bring “more alts”. Not playing the game is not an acceptable counter. > [@Syzygium](#): > > They aren’t favored to a degree that you cannot deal with them any more. They are favored. They don’t “deserve” what is handled to them by the game. > [@Syzygium](#): > > If you get ganked, its 100% your fault because you made multiple mistakes prior to your ship loss. No, it’s the game catering to multi alts lazy people. You know the game can increase dynamically the concord truesec. How comes the systems that have a lot of criminal activities don’t increase , say based on the log(1+1number kill over the last 60 days) ? They do something alike for the index cost , so they can do that also for ss. How comes 10 alts can sit in HS while they have a negative ss and attack other people without any need for active gameplay until they find a suitable target ? THAT is afk brain gameplay ! How comes concord does not come faster when there are multiple criminal activities at the same time ? All those things cater to AFK brain alt gameplay. And you know they do ! > [@Syzygium](#): > > all the people that successfully bring their freighters from Amarr to Jita without being ganked are proof of that. It’s a proof of nothing. “someone did not die doing it, so it’s balanced” is a nonsensical argument. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/38 "2023-12-09T12:56:54Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not paranoia, it’s the game design. People can not be here when you need them, for personal reasons. So you _need_ to have alts available. > Any important action that requires activity of several players NEEDS to have alts for those activities available. > If you can’t have alts, the day other players can’t help you you are screwed. Calling that paranoia is stupid. No, the whole issue is a made up You-Problem because you somehow think that you have a godgiven right do succeed with everything you want to do, everywhere and anytime you want to do it. If you can’t muster enough support at a given time, you simply can’t break trough a gatecamp set up by 20 armed ships. Simple as that. It’s the same in every corner of EVE, Highsec included. The WH-player can’t run his combat sites if there are open connections he can’t control or close and a superior gang lurking insivisble in his hole. He either needs to wait or fight for his control of the area. The Abyssalrunner can’t run his traces if there are 10 NovusOrdo guys in Local unless he wants to die. He either has to wait until they are gone, or drive them off by force. He needs to wait or secure the area. The Missionrunner can’t do L5 missions if there is a hostile Pirate Gang in the System. If the does, he will be killed quickly. He needs to wait or he needs to fight them off. The mining corp can’t bring their Orca+Hulks out if there is a CODE gang moving around and waiting for them, unless they want to lose ships. Wait or fight. Haulers are not special snowflakes who have a godgiven right to do their trips and break through camps in their unarmed multibillion ISK floating bricks. Either they bring support or do something else. Like every other profession has to do. You have been explained _several_ options to deal with such a situation, but you simply refute them all. And thats why this whole “issue” is simply made up and not a problem in EVE at all. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > They are favored. They don’t “deserve” what is handled to them by the game. Thats just your personal opinion. They deserve the loot of every successful gank for sure, because they did play the game a lot better by setting up a working trap, knowing the mechanics, knowing the numbers and executing the task without messing up. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > ou know the game can increase dynamically the concord truesec. How comes the systems that have a lot of criminal activities don’t increase , say based on the log(1+1number kill over the last 60 days) ? They do something alike for the index cost , so they can do that also for ss. > > How comes 10 alts can sit in HS while they have a negative ss and attack other people without any need for active gameplay until they find a suitable target ? THAT is afk brain gameplay ! > > How comes concord does not come faster when there are multiple criminal activities at the same time ? Ask CCP about that. I don’t even disagree that ganking could be made harder, more challenging and more dynamic instead of having a handful static ganking hotspots. No problem with that, I actually do think it’s still pretty easy despite all the “nerfs”. But dodging it is ALSO pretty easy, so we don’t have a problem with Ganking at all. I just can’t stand all the whining about ganking while one can avoid it with some _simple_ steps. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Unless he is already dead. Thats simply impossible if the JF pilot has chosen an adequate station to dock. If he hasn’t and undocks into a waiting gang that prevents him from re-docking, he deserves the loss for not being as professional as anyone piloting such an expensive ship should be. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s a proof of nothing. “someone did not die doing it, so it’s balanced” is a nonsensical argument. If proves that all this “nothing can be done” is nonsense, because there are actually people “doing something” very successful. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/39 "2023-12-09T13:20:11Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > No, Completely out of topic. I was answering you to your “it’s paranoia to believe you can’t trust anyone”. Your then exaggeration and insults are then off topic. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats just your personal opinion. So what ? So an opinion that disagrees with you is not to be considered as relevant ? > [@Syzygium](#): > > They deserve the loot of every successful gank for sure No they don’t. They got it, does not mean they deserve it. > [@Syzygium](#): > > I just can’t stand all the whining about ganking while one can avoid it with some _simple_ steps. Because all your “simple steps” require to have more alts. All your answers are “have more alts” > [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats simply impossible if the JF pilot has chosen an adequate station to dock. He can’t dock when he’s dead. Kickout or not is not the question. > [@Syzygium](#): > > If proves that all this “nothing can be done” is nonsense, because there are actually people “doing something” very successful. No it does not. Stop pretending that the people who complain can do whatever you think they should do. Especially when it involves using more alts. Anyhow, I’m not the one complaining in that thread, I’m just bringing how your pseudo logic is full of victim blaming and plain insults. Have fun pretending that 10 alts ganking is not an AFK-brain gameplay and that they are entitled to getting money from people who invested 10 times what they did. This is just stupid, and you know it. They are abusing game mechanisms that other people can’t abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/40 "2023-12-09T13:42:05Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Completely out of topic. I was answering you to your “it’s paranoia to believe you can’t trust anyone”. > > Your then exaggeration and insults are then off topic. No it’s not off-topic, because the same rules apply for all of us. Either fight for whatever you want to achieve or at least make sure you don’t get caught. Haulers are not an exception. They have options enough to avoid being ganked, if they don’t use them its their fault, clearly. And no, you don’t need “more alts” for it, even if you try to repeat it constantly to make it sound true somehow. Many options have been outlined and honestly I am getting a bit tired to constantly remind you of your circlejerks. You can be a 100% _ungankable_ even witout a single Alt in this game, you just can’t do every content in this game with just a single account (whether that being an alt of your own or another player you fly together with). And thats fine, because it’s an multiplayer game. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > So what ? So an opinion that disagrees with you is not to be considered as relevant ? It’s an opinion that simply ignores the realities of the game. You presented it as if “they don’t deserve it” would be some kind of fact. But it’s indeed pretty irrelevant if you believe they don’t deserve what they can loot. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Because all your “simple steps” require to have more alts. > All your answers are “have more alts” Nope. But please, keep repeating it. It doesn’t get true. Most of the time I play on just one account and only use my second one on very special occasions for convenience. In no way I _need_ it to play. And, oh wonder, I don’t get ganked despite flying around in sometimes pretty expensive ships in HighSec. All this boogeyman paranoia about gankers everywhere and needing a horrible large army of alts to counter them is simple nonsense. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > He can’t dock when he’s dead. Kickout or not is not the question. Oh, so please outline a scenario where a JF can’t dock on a carefully chosen NPC station after jumping on his own cyno? I mean, it has been this way for ages, and if you can’t stand dualboxing you simply can’t jump a JF around. Like with any other capitalship that uses a Jumpdrive. You know that beforehand. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Not every content has to be soloable in a multiplayer game. But IF you do it, JFs were pretty much unkillable when jumping on their own Cyno right next to an NPC station. If you disagree, I am pretty eager to hear about your scenario where ambushers are able to _reliably_ lure the JF pilot into a trap and kill him before he can dock. I am listening. ---
**Author:** ![Daim\_Is](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daim_is/32/382305_2.png) [@Daim\_Is](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daim_Is)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/broken-pirating-and-ganking-with-no-counter/430974/41 "2023-12-11T14:08:18Z")
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