# Caldari offensive on Fliet **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [August 5, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662 "2021-08-05T18:21:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662/24 "2021-09-20T21:34:56Z")
Wow the Frogs are even more sensitive than I thought ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662/25 "2021-09-20T21:54:46Z")
The Caldari will take it soon. ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_maxwell/32/319582_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Maxwell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662/26 "2021-09-21T01:08:11Z")
You must have a deadfully low opinion of anyone fighting on behalf of the empires. It doesn’t seem you can imagine an individual actually having stakes in some of these systems, or wanting to secure their resources for as long as one can, or even that people are simply loyal to their chosen empire and decide to serve in a method that keeps ones skills honed To be honest though, your opinion of us mirrors my opinion of those of you in nullsec. So hopped up on your own glory, and so intent on being rebellious little conquerers that you think what you’re doing is safe outside of Empire control. You seem to honestly believe that if you actually posed a threat, the Empires WOULDN’T just shut down the fluid routers, turn off your gates, and disable your capsules, leaving your populations to starve to death in the darkness between the stars. Anyone who becomes a capsuleer accepts the leash around their necks. We’re dogs who know who our masters are. You’re dogs who pretend that you’re free. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662/27 "2021-09-21T02:25:27Z")
> [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > You must have a deadfully low opinion of anyone fighting on behalf of the empires. It doesn’t seem you can imagine an individual actually having stakes in some of these systems, or wanting to secure their resources for as long as one can, or even that people are simply loyal to their chosen empire and decide to serve in a method that keeps ones skills honed Not at all. I think there are basically three kinds of capsuleers fighting for the empires. 1. Navy capsuleers—obviously, they’re outside the scope of my opinions on the warzone, and why I feel the fighting in the warzone is meaningless_1_. 2. True Believer Loyalists—By this, I don’t just mean Amarr Faithful. I mean the people who truly believe in the cause for their nation, but (for whatever reason_2_) aren’t in their nation’s navy. True believers’ goals line up with those of their nation, because they’re fighting in order to serve the needs of their people_3_. Serving your people is an honorable and noble pursuit. It’s just not always one that’s terribly _meaningful_ in the larger scheme of things. 3. ‘Farmers’—These capsuleers aren’t engaging other militia capsuleers. They’re _just_ there to make money. They have no personal loyalty to the nation they’re flying for (which probably changes with the vagaries of the warzone). Their goals are just ‘get rich’, and they tend to avoid fights with other capsuleers. Of the three, the only ones I hold in low esteem are the third group. > [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > So hopped up on your own glory, and so intent on being rebellious little conquerers that you think what you’re doing is safe outside of Empire control. You seem to honestly believe that if you actually posed a threat, the Empires WOULDN’T just shut down the fluid routers, turn off your gates, and disable your capsules, leaving your populations to starve to death in the darkness between the stars. You really know very little about us. Outside the empires’ control? More like ‘beyond their caring’. If the empires wanted, they could crush us like bugs. But they don’t, and it’s not at all difficult to understand why. They don’t crush us because, just like those loyalists, we’re doing exactly what they want us doing. ![m2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/c/9/cc90f57a7de8b3c95f5414a3c929096bb3d4c102.jpeg) We’re killing 257 titans in a single day. We’re killing 2500 subcapitals in a single fight. If the empires didn’t _want_ us out here doing this, they wouldn’t have built multiple monuments to days like M2-XFE and B-R5RB. We’re doing it, and that means they don’t _have_ to. We’re developing doctrines, developing tactics, and then developing counters, and iterating through that process as many as a dozen times in a single month. We’re a laboratory experiment, and all they have to do is keep records of what we’re doing, take everything we learn, and apply those lessons to their own doctrines and fleets. And it costs them…? Nothing. Nothing at all. Most of the time, we’re happily collecting bounties from CONCORD, killing the pirate nations the empires would rather see forced into perpetual rebuilding. So tell me again how I believe that I’m ‘safe outside of empire control’? The fact that we’re pursuing our own agendas, for our own reasons, doesn’t change that. It just means the empires know how to make use of that, too. > [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > We’re dogs who know who our masters are. You’re dogs who pretend that you’re free. We’re not dogs. Dogs are _valued_. Capsuleers _aren’t_. We’re _bullets_: not just expendable, but frequently-expended, and easily replaced. We’re so easy to replace, nobody even notices when it happens. * * * 1. Because you’ll note, that’s why my opinion was about: the actual activity of fighting to take and hold systems in the warzone. It wasn’t about the people. 2. Maybe they washed out of Navy training. Maybe they ended up with a criminal record after the came out of flight school, so the best they can do is fly in the militia. Maybe they’re delusional and believe being part of the militia makes them a real and legitimate part of their nation’s navy. Lots of reasons these folks are in this group, not the first one. 3. These capsuleers have, historically, been a _minority_ of the participants in the warzone. They just happen to be the ones who make the biggest splash, because the third group… well. They’re the third group. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/caldari-offensive-on-fliet/322662/28 "2021-12-20T02:25:29Z")
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