# Came back from break -4 Billion ISK **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 24, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164 "2018-07-24T14:32:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Neuntausend](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neuntausend/32/11965_2.png) [@Neuntausend](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neuntausend)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/41 "2018-07-24T18:04:54Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No he does not EXPECT scamming to be allowed. > > Scamming IS allowed. Just to underline this with what was quoted earlier already: > [@Eimar\_Akytamku](#): > > Although low and despicable, scams do not violate any game mechanics and can not be compensated for by the GMs, nor can the scammers generally be punished for their actions. It doesn’t get any more clear than that. However, doesn’t that mean that CCP can scam us as well? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuttomenui\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tuttomenui_ii/32/479440_2.png) [@Tuttomenui\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tuttomenui_II)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/42 "2018-07-24T18:06:53Z")
Maybe OP scammed that GM’s Alt. Might want to have CCP’s Internal security team take a look. If this was a case where server lag caused the trade window to not update the offered isk amount then I would think the proper resolution would have been to reverse the trade. Not inject isk. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/43 "2018-07-24T18:11:07Z")
I dont understand, first you said in other thread that someone scammed you, impersonating other player, then you write you scammed someone else, and gm removed ISK from you. Do you scam yourself with your own alts, impersonating yourself? WHAT IS GOING ON? ---
**Author:** ![Tuttomenui\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tuttomenui_ii/32/479440_2.png) [@Tuttomenui\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tuttomenui_II)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/44 "2018-07-24T18:12:00Z")
What other thread? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/45 "2018-07-24T18:13:20Z")
> [@Makavi\_Madeveda](#): > > Also, if this scam is illegal then you’d better get your asses in gear to retroactively ban the hundreds who have done the exact same scam. It’s not a scam, it is using an Exploit as far as I understood from the reddit post. The “Scammer” uses an Exploit to change the ISK-amount without the victim having to re-confirm _accept_. Actually it’s the perfect ground for being perma-banned. OP might have opened pandoras box. Because he couldn’t accept that someone challenged his Exploit, he had to ramble about it and might possibly lose all his assets now. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/46 "2018-07-24T18:14:46Z")
> [@Is Impersonation allowed?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-impersonation-allowed/91818/18): > > Yeah, [Came back from break -4 Billion ISK](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164) ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/47 "2018-07-24T18:15:48Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > It’s not a scam, it is using an Exploit as far as I understood from the reddit post. That existed since beta and CCP has been aware of it for literally 15 years and didn’t change anything. It’s not an exploit proven by their own inaction to patch it. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/48 "2018-07-24T18:15:49Z")
> [@Is Impersonation allowed?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-impersonation-allowed/91818): > > Sent someone a few billion isk who claimed he was another character I know, then he ran with isk, found out it was not the person he claimed he was. I put petition into exploit category and am waiting, will I receive reimbursement? Lastly I was at first invited to a cloned motd channel with same motd etc, this was straight up intended. a update Well here is a update, first regular GM claimed its allowed, I requested it forwarded to a senior, senior claims it was not breaking eula because I “a… Busted… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/49 "2018-07-24T18:18:17Z")
> [@Neuntausend](#): > > > [@Eimar\_Akytamku](#): > > > > Although low and despicable, **scams do not violate any game mechanics** and can not be compensated for by the GMs, nor can the scammers generally be punished for their actions. > > It doesn’t get any more clear than that. However, doesn’t that mean that CCP can scam us as well? 😃 Classic case of interpreting a statement for one’s own gain. The bolded part does not give a pardon to any kind of scams. It means only scams, which do not violate game mechanics, are allowed. So when players scam using the trade window, which is a mechanic designed to make trading safe, and then is abuse for scams, will this definitely not be OK with CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/50 "2018-07-24T18:18:52Z")
You mean OP wanted to recover ISK by scamming GM? I have to put on my tinfoil hat for this. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/a/5af5b6c547868fc463c8e43d99ae10b828747922.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/51 "2018-07-24T18:20:38Z")
OP simply needs to HTFU and accept the consequences of scamming… ---
**Author:** ![Neuntausend](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neuntausend/32/11965_2.png) [@Neuntausend](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neuntausend)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/52 "2018-07-24T18:24:43Z")
I don’t gain anything by that. I haven’t scammed anyone ingame in a long time, and I have never been into it very much. I am just too kind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/53 "2018-07-24T18:26:00Z")
> [@Neuntausend](#): > > I don’t gain anything by that. I haven’t scammed anyone ingame in a long time, and I have never been into it very much. I am just too kind. 🙂 I didn’t mean you specifically. I only saw the quoted part and knew that’s going to get misinterpreted badly. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/54 "2018-07-24T18:30:11Z")
> [@Eimar\_Akytamku](#): > > If true, then that means that trade window scams are no longer allowed. Will CCP reimburse the thousands of players who’ve fallen victims for such scams then, and deck the amounts from the scammers wallets? From what I read on reddit, this wasn’t a regular trade window scam, it was using an Exploit. > [@Rainbow\_Witcher](#): > > yeah i put new ticket in, i actually biomassed the character because even with tiny bit of skills -4 billion wallet crippled doing anything on here And now he is trying to escape the consequences it seems. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Scamming IS allowed. Yeah but we have 2 stories here. OP says it was a regular scam, reddit says he was using an Exploit in the Trade Window. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I dont understand, first you said in other thread that someone scammed you, impersonating other player, then you write you scammed someone else, and gm removed ISK from you. Do you scam yourself with your own alts, impersonating yourself? WHAT IS GOING ON? That’s why I actually think this whole thing is fishy. OP either using an Exploit or being involved in some RMT-scheme seems more likely than him being a victim of overzealous GM. > [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > That existed since beta and CCP has been aware of it for literally 15 years and didn’t change anything. It’s not an exploit proven by their own inaction to patch it. Fair enough, but didn’t they state somewhere that using any part of the program against its intended purpose can be considered an exploit? They should probably do something with it, because right now the only viable way to avoid being the victim of that ?exploit? is to not use the trade window at all. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You mean OP wanted to recover ISK by scamming GM? I have to put on my tinfoil hat for this. It might have been like this: OP tries to scam the guy with this Azbel. Victim calls GM because the trade window didn’t ask for confirmation after OP changed the ISK amount. GM realizes something is fishy, but doesn’t realize OP was using a (possible) exploit. GM transfers money to Victim. OP opens another ticket, stating that Victim try to impersonate a friend of OP and that’s why OP send the money (which really the GM send). OP is unsuccessful with his ticket, either because GM team realizes it is the same case or because OP didn’t deliver enough reason for them to believe the impersonation story. Then OP simultaneously opens two threads here, trying to sell us this one case as two different stories. Same on Reddit. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/55 "2018-07-24T18:38:25Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Yeah but we have 2 stories here. OP says it was a regular scam, reddit says he was using an Exploit in the Trade Window. That’s why discussing GM is not allowed on this forum. People are very likely to “forget” they were abusing system to throw discredit on CCP. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/56 "2018-07-24T18:41:27Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > People are very likely to “forget” they were abusing system to throw discredit on CCP. Right, but isn’t that ultimately a bit stupid of them? Scams are a part of EVE and should be protected. Using Exploits is not. If OP indeed used an Exploit and was lucky enough to not get caught, he should have been smart enough to keep his mouth shut about it. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/57 "2018-07-24T18:43:54Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Fair enough, but didn’t they state somewhere that using any part of the program against its intended purpose can be considered an exploit? They should probably do something with it, because right now the only viable way to avoid being the victim of that ?exploit? is to not use the trade window at all. There are scams based on human nature (i.e. exploiting gullible players) and there are scams based on mechanics (exploits of mechanics). The later is obviously bad, because it goes against CCP and not simply another player. Messing with players is fine, messing with the game and CCP is not, and this has to be understood as the first rule by anyone who tries to scam in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Cletus\_Graeme](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cletus_graeme/32/97017_2.png) [@Cletus\_Graeme](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cletus_Graeme)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/58 "2018-07-24T18:46:14Z")
> [@ISD\_Sakimura](#): > > We can debate this back and forth until the end of time. We can but we shouldn’t. This is not a genuine case of whistleblowing but if people want to gossip without having the full facts to hand who can stop them. vOv ---
**Author:** ![Neuntausend](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neuntausend/32/11965_2.png) [@Neuntausend](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neuntausend)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/59 "2018-07-24T18:47:55Z")
We should not have seen the GMs response, but we have. So there’s no reason to ignore it now. Nowhere in his response did the GM claim that he ruled this way because it was an exploit. I’m not saying that OP wasn’t using an exploit, but had this decision been made because of an exploit, would the response not explain that? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164/60 "2018-07-24T18:50:25Z")
> [@Neuntausend](#): > > We should not have seen the GMs response, but we have. So there’s no reason to ignore it now. Nowhere in his response did the GM claim that he ruled this way because it was an exploit. > > I’m not saying that OP wasn’t using an exploit, but had this decision been made because of an exploit, would the response not explain that? Yeah, that’s the even weirder part. I could imagine CCP being aware that the trade window lag thing was declared an exploit back in 2009, but they didn’t properly fix it, so for now they don’t punish people using it, they just fulfill the trade if they get a ticket. Because, if the GM had ruled or even seen this as using an Exploit, OP would potentially be already banned. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-from-break-4-billion-isk/92164.md?page=4)