# Came back yesterday leaving again today **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 5, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511 "2021-05-05T15:22:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/104 "2021-05-06T08:16:42Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I mind it for other reasons that are not related to suicide-ganking Could you explain those reasons, with actual facts and examples? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/105 "2021-05-06T08:17:02Z")
Already been done in previous posts. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/106 "2021-05-06T08:17:14Z")
double web gives you that control, uses less PG so allows you to fit another plate. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/107 "2021-05-06T08:17:51Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Already been done in previous posts Could you perhaps point to a post where you explain in detail what those other reasons are? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/108 "2021-05-06T08:18:51Z")
Posts 85, 91. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/109 "2021-05-06T08:19:05Z")
> [@Zane\_Carbin](#): > > double web gives you that control, uses less PG so allows you to fit another plate. i use double web in my destroyer but is sub par i only use it because it only have 2 mids cruisers have more range double web is asking to be killed by any prop mod long range if amarr had more mids sure ill put more webs ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/110 "2021-05-06T08:19:44Z")
Try quads, not joking. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/111 "2021-05-06T08:21:35Z")
Those are not facts. They’re really just deflections, opinions based on nothing. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/112 "2021-05-06T08:21:56Z")
dude for real no prop is a siting duck in my stile of pvp thats why my favorite cruiser is the phantasm if you cant change direction fast on the go anyone can out track you even with quads thats why people use MWD on dreads and them siege to have speed and track better ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/113 "2021-05-06T08:24:20Z")
But you die all the time in your Omen without anything to show for, it seems your current strategy isn’t working. Not trying to be a dick about it just try it if only for a few times, it’s not like losing another Omen is alien to you 🙂 Same thing for the Naug: fit quads. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/114 "2021-05-06T08:25:31Z")
you are talking about wen i go to null and got uber ganked eh click on solo and check it out the journey not saying im good just that im better than you ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/115 "2021-05-06T08:28:17Z")
I’m not going to conduct a double-blind study and put in a hundred hours of statistical analysis to appease the demand of a forum poster (an alt poster at that). If you want facts, open the market, and start browsing ship stats and prices. It should become apparent very quickly why changing destroyers won’t do anything aside from hurting ship diversity. And feel free to ask gankers if they’d gank any less if they had to switch to cruisers. Plenty of them post on the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/116 "2021-05-06T08:30:55Z")
Looks like the dude hasn’t played in seven years. That sounds like “false beginner” to me. Details are easy to forget, long absences make you forget details, and missing details equals death. Plus many things have changed in that time. Its really a shame he got ganked before he could relearn I bet a dozen or more things that could have saved him. Its also too bad the ones leaking even more salt than him have to treat him like a pinata on the forum. But you know, if one ape sees two apes attacking a third ape, he just joins the attacking apes. Thoughts of guilt or innocence don’t come to mind, only getting in on the action crosses an ape’s mind. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/117 "2021-05-06T08:33:37Z")
t1 destroyers are made to kill frigates people use them to gank but they can use talos to for example or any other thing ganking is a form of f1 monkeyry if you lose a large ship to t1 destroyers except , orcas freighters etc like i said you did something wrong > [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > Looks like the dude hasn’t played in seven years. That sounds like “false beginner” to me. the op is irrelevant at this point , we busted his balls because he showed a bad kill mail and told he is going to quit , thats tradition and yes i lost a omen to 2 merlins , before that guy dig it , use quads , bs ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/118 "2021-05-06T08:46:40Z")
Ah the straw man reaction. Just be honest about it: you like the current situation with low cost ships that are optimised for your personal play style and you’re not interested in a discussion (which is weird, normally you just can’t shut up) that may challenge that. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/119 "2021-05-06T09:04:25Z")
I don’t even gank. Well, not fully true. I gank maybe less than half a dozen targets per year. At some point I’m _planning_ to gank more, but the ships I use don’t matter as long as there’s a reasonable financial relationship between cost and profit (e.g. I don’t have to spend 500M to gank 50M). Whether it’s a 2.5M destroyer or a 12.5M cruiser makes absolutely no difference to me, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/120 "2021-05-06T09:22:46Z")
🙂 Ganking in and of itself is fine. Personally I’d only do it for profit or area control reasons (or when it gets personal), I’m less favourable of folks who do nothing but venture/retriever ganking to “inflict pain”. But that’s my personal pov. However, that doesn’t mean that having a healthy discussion on how price/performance on destroyers for this specific use is out of whack, is a bad thing. Outright nerfs would also hurt other play styles used for these ships, rebalancing their stats (in what specific way is up for discussion) would have less crass results for non-ganking play styles. The ships are used too much which means they are too good which means it needs adjusting. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/121 "2021-05-06T09:29:02Z")
> [@Zane\_Carbin](#): > > The ships are used too much which means they are too good which means it needs adjusting. They are “used too much” in terms of only one gameplay element. In all others, they’re used normally. If you increase their costs, it won’t have an effect on ganking _aside_ from pushing the value threshold of for-profit ganks by the amount of the price increase (e.g. if the current minimum value of a hauler target is 50M per 10K EHP, adjusting the value of destroyers up by 10M would result in a current new minimum value of 60M). High-profile ganks, and ganks done out of principle (like T1 mining barges or even Ventures) will still be conducted at normal rates, because the cost of performing them is **not a factor** (within reason). But all usage of destroyers in terms of other gameplay elements, such as FW, roaming gangs, etc., will be negatively affected. This is to say, increasing the price of destroyers will have the net effect of several negatives, and zero positives. I don’t know how many more times this needs to be repeated. Just refer to this post for all of your subsequent replies. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/122 "2021-05-06T09:35:49Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If you increase their costs I’m not talking about increasing cost or flat out nerfs. I’m talking about lowering one variable (dps output) in favour of another variable (like tank, say). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511/123 "2021-05-06T09:37:48Z")
Actually, a Monitor Class would be ace. No Warp But destroyer guns and Maller armour [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/came-back-yesterday-leaving-again-today/309511.md?page=7)