# Can Eve Online survive without PvP? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 30, 2022, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786 "2022-05-30T11:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/21 "2022-05-30T13:21:57Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > If no one will play on it then it’s wasted time and resources. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Well, a lot of players assert that carebears wouldn’t be happy with a PvE only server, but I’m not so sure. Now, I do believe that at least some of them would find it to be a hollow and unrewarding experience, but I’m willing to bet many more would happily grind along making number go up. > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/a/a/daa67c7cbbeaec85269fea9efca2e6752885007d.jpeg) > > That being said, I don’t think Eve can survive a population split. Space is too big, and the player population is too small. Thus, I think it would drop below a social critical mass, which would lead to a positive feedback loop of players quitting. > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/6/4/b64f86fd0a2abde72310902f624919ec5a42f0b1.jpeg) > > But, I’ve got to go be productive. So, I’m going to leave it at that for now. For a tough and hardcore PvP people you seem a little scared to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/22 "2022-05-30T13:29:19Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > but will it? Yes, because without PvP you have no market really or market competition as players fighting over prices is still PvP, there is no incentive to build things if combat isn’t causing losses, once you get rid of all PvP you end up with a boring dull game nobody would really want to play ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/23 "2022-05-30T13:45:20Z")
contrary to many posters thoughts, PVP isnt necessary to sustain markets and industry, BUT, it helps and it keeps the game interesting. PVE eventually becomes repetitive and boring. PVP is exciting because of the relative unknowns involvedd. this is why i have posted on other threads that abyssals are not content. people would still play even if PVE was the basis of the game but not to the degree and intensity that occurs in EVE today ---
**Author:** ![Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tomas9970_amatin/32/381989_2.png) [@Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tomas9970_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/24 "2022-05-30T13:57:12Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > I think a big part of the value of an item is also assigned by the player him or herself and is related to the amount of time it took them to get it as well as the player’s own attachment to the item. It might be their first ship, it might be their favourite ship because of appearance or how it performs in the content the player is consuming. I think this is the core problem with this post. Everything in EVE is designed to be perishable (with some exceptions like PLEX and BPOs) so if you put so much value into a ship that you can’t deal with it’s loss, you are playing it wrong. Also a quick glance at Zkill, you lost a 5.4B Golem and 1.1B Ishtar in highsec, with the former looking like a suspect bait so your motivation is clear as day. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/25 "2022-05-30T14:11:11Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > For a tough and hardcore PvP people you seem a little scared to find out. I’m not tough. I got ganked not two days ago in 0.4. My Destruction wasn’t Massive enough 😄 Do you see me moaning about it and calling to cut EVE in half? No. Not only that you’ll never see how scared we could be of another EVE server because CCP will never waste their time with dumb ideas like yours. ---
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/26 "2022-05-30T14:15:25Z")
> [@Tomas9970\_Amatin](#): > > Also a quick glance at Zkill, you lost a 5.4B Golem and 1.1B Ishtar in highsec, with the former looking like a suspect bait so your motivation is clear as day. Golem was to load shedding (its a South African thing) and the Istar was on me for going AFK waiting for Lancers to show up. But I have lost a lot more ship learning the game (especially learning the Lancer farming rules) and never complained about it. It’s part of the game, but new people don’t know that. This is more for new player retention. I mean we lost 3 new players streamers just in the last week. How many non-streamers were there? New people don’t seem to stick around do they and that is bad for the game. ---
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/27 "2022-05-30T14:18:16Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Yes, because without PvP you have no market really or market competition as players fighting over prices is still PvP, there is no incentive to build things if combat isn’t causing losses, once you get rid of all PvP you end up with a boring dull game nobody would really want to play If only that was true. Prices are determined by supply and demand. The best modules cost the both because people are willing to pay more for better stats. Basic economics. ---
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/28 "2022-05-30T14:19:43Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > I’m not tough. I got ganked not two days ago in 0.4. My Destruction wasn’t Massive enough 😄 Do you see me moaning about it and calling to cut EVE in half? No. > Not only that you’ll never see how scared we could be of another EVE server because CCP will never waste their time with dumb ideas like yours. Just because you don’t agree with something does not make it wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/29 "2022-05-30T14:21:39Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > 3 new players streamers Streamers are incentivized financially to have the widest, most popular audience possible. Eve Online as a game is not a mainstream game, nor designed to be as such. ---
**Author:** ![Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tomas9970_amatin/32/381989_2.png) [@Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tomas9970_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/30 "2022-05-30T14:24:48Z")
Close enough but not quite right. Better modules are more expensive because they are harder to get and therefore have limited supply, which is also largely due to risk associated with getting them (like PvP and flying outside highsec). ---
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/31 "2022-05-30T14:25:21Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Streamers are incentivized financially to have the widest, most popular audience possible. > > Eve Online as a game is not a mainstream game, nor designed to be as such. Really is that why they are paying streamers to try their game? Contrary to popular believe CCP wants to make a popular game, not a niche one. Currently they have a niche one and that is never good. They said they want to work on new player retention themselves and they will come up with some crazy stuff themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Michal\_Somebody](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michal_somebody/32/494799_2.png) [@Michal\_Somebody](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michal_Somebody)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/32 "2022-05-30T14:27:35Z")
> [@Tomas9970\_Amatin](#): > > Close enough but not quite right. Better modules are more expensive because they are harder to get and therefore have limited supply, which is also largely due to risk associated with getting them (like PvP and flying outside highsec). Caldari Navy Heavy Missiles Launchers are not expensive because of short supply. They add more DPS simple. More people want them and are willing to pay more for them. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/33 "2022-05-30T14:32:33Z")
It’s funny. In theory the PvE-variant could work, but it wouldn’t function the way the OP would like. Basically 99% of players function and play like bots. We’re nearly all replaceable by simple scripts. CCP probably couldn’t, but you could have simple scripts controlling named bots dedicated to one activity of mining, ganking, trucking, gate camping, roaming, defending, o-plexing, pirating, explo, etc. etc. The virtual economy with it’s risks and rewards is easily satisfied by blowing up poorly used player ships…doesn’t matter by whom, or what. What we players do, really isn’t that hard to emulate, until we finally open our mouths and players rarely do, unless they belong to the same group. The only players that are hard to replace are alliance leaders, directors, diplomats and the players in your own corp or alliance and that’s mostly because they talk (and only rarely due to higher brain functions). You’d have PvE or EvE and it could even be tailored to be harder on the player than what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/34 "2022-05-30T14:34:36Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > > > That being said, I don’t think Eve can survive a population split. Space is too big, and the player population is too small. Thus, I think it would drop below a social critical mass, which would lead to a positive feedback loop of players quitting. > > > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/1/0/a109cc60e394db6ac2f66b8169b37eeb95308c51.jpeg) > > For a tough and hardcore PvP people you seem a little scared to find out. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/6/c/a6c0a9e35bb67da17a7ea26b64a8c4f3f184212d.jpeg) I’m not one of these people who would rather an MMO be destroyed, than see it happy with another player. Nor am I the type of person who’s willing to bet other people’s favorite MMO on the slim chance that the devs will be able to successfully take the game in a new direction that appeals to my own tastes. But, apparently, when other people are willing to risk my favorite MMO on whether or not CCP (a dev that is mostly experienced in PvP games) can successful transition a PvP focused sandbox MMO into a cooperative, casualized, PvE-focused experience, I’m the coward for speaking out against it. Now, if only there was a meme I could make that could concisely express my belief that the Permanent Green Safety Brigade was actually a bunch of self-ish assholes… ---
**Author:** ![Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tomas9970_amatin/32/381989_2.png) [@Tomas9970\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tomas9970_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/35 "2022-05-30T14:43:09Z")
They do. To make faction modules, you need loyalty points and these require effort to get. As a result, few people bother and therefore less of these modules are listed on the market, which makes their prices higher. Caldari Navy is still a pretty weak example. Nullsec modules like Syndicate ones are where this really shows as relatively few groups are able to source them (mission system control and stuff). For T2 ships, replace LP with materials that don’t come from highsec and you get something very similar. They are valuable because few people can source them, which then translates into price of the final product. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/36 "2022-05-30T15:01:47Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > I know Eve was developed as a PvP sandbox and PvP is the “fun” and “exciting” part of the game. But maybe a PvE server can help pay the bills (wink, wink, nudge, nudge at the financial director). While I appreciate that you believe you’re trying to improve the game in some way, your complete failure to grasp reality in many aspects means you simply haven’t put any real thought into it. “I am not saying splitting servers. I am saying put up a PvE server” is one example. (Little hint: that’s exactly what splitting the servers is.) EVE is and always has been about PvP as one of the core features, and it is _supposed_ to be about the sandbox but CCP keeps shoveling out the sand and putting in fences, for some reason. Your suggestion is about removing both PvP and sandbox. In essence, turning EVE into yet another PvE theme park MMO with “optional PvP when both parties agree”. Which in nearly every MMO of that type means “effectively no PvP”. PvP in EVE is basically designed and supported very, very badly by in-game mechanics. EVE doesn’t need _less_ PvP, or _only consensual_ PvP. It needs _more and better designed_ PvP. EVE should be a hotbed of actual player vs. player, ship combat, with risk of loss on both sides. (You have to be very specific because idiot trolls will come along and say “Just logging in and placing a market order in EVE is PvP hur hur durr!”) The fact that actual ship PvP is such a minimal activity is a result of sheer incompetence and complacence on CCP’s part. It isn’t an indication that the tiny amounts of PvP left should be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/37 "2022-05-30T15:08:10Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > PvP in EVE is basically designed and supported very, very badly by in-game mechanics. EVE doesn’t need _less_ PvP, or _only consensual_ PvP. It needs _more and better designed_ PvP. Specifically, players need more reasons to PvP, such as return of Passive moon mining. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/38 "2022-05-30T15:19:20Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > Just because you don’t agree with something does not make it wrong It isn’t wrong, it’s simply useless and a waste. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/39 "2022-05-30T15:33:53Z")
When I first read the title of this post Star Trek Online poped right into my head. That game is pretty much 99% PVE. There are ground and space PvP arenas but are completely dead. I would not play EVE is it’s near pure PvE I like the risk of being ganked even how remote it is. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786/40 "2022-05-30T15:47:32Z")
> [@Michal\_Somebody](#): > > I have recently watched streamers complaining about balance in-game because they can no longer take out their Titan solo to do ratting or run high level missions because there are people out there that just waiting to gank them with a swarm of very small and inexpensive ships. Did PvP, in this case, cause the player to assign too a high value to their Titan so that they are too scared to fly it because of fear of losing it? It’s IRL like leaving your Ferrari in your garage at home because you are too scared to drive it because someone will bump it. What fun do you get out of it if you can’t drive and show it off to other people? I think you have it bass ackwards. It’s actually the smaller ships that are scarier to undock…with their puny EHP and DPS that can be demolished by a single Catalyst. I regularly travel to Jita in a battlecruiser to collect stuff, with little fear of being ganked as the EHP is so high. I would not do that same trip in a Condor. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/can-eve-online-survive-without-pvp/364786.md?page=3)