# \[CAVTT\] The Test of Faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Tags:** roleplay, amarr\ **Created:** [October 1, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415 "2019-10-01T20:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/141 "2019-10-11T17:08:41Z")
I’m pretty cynical it’s true, it’s how I’m never disappointed in people. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/142 "2019-10-11T22:25:04Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > In the end, you’re just another idealist and me, well, I’m a realist. Realist? You’re not a realist. Realists understand that each and every one of us is utterly meaningless and useless, on our own. You? You’re just in it for you. You chase after wealth for sake of being wealthy, after power because you think ‘the powerful protect one another’ means you’ll be protected, too. You won’t. The people you sell your services to don’t see you as anything but a tool. A _realist_ would dedicate themselves to something bigger than themselves. Because even _we_ are passing, and ephemeral. ---
**Author:** ![Evi\_Polevhia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/evi_polevhia/32/501296_2.png) [@Evi\_Polevhia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Evi_Polevhia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/143 "2019-10-12T02:16:09Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > seller of people to Sansha. Please don’t worry, Samira. They are all much happier now. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/144 "2019-10-12T04:40:23Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The people you sell your services to don’t see you as anything but a tool. Well yes. It’s a transactional relationship – so long as I remain useful, I remain protected. It’s quid pro quo, and I’m fine with that because I remain useful and avail myself to powers that be. > [@Arrendis](#): > > A _realist_ would dedicate themselves to something bigger than themselves. Because even _we_ are passing, and ephemeral. The capitalist status quo is bigger than myself, and it is what I dedicate myself to. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/145 "2019-10-12T05:19:56Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > so long as I remain useful, I remain protected No, as long as you remain more useful than inconvenient, you remain _used_. > [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > The capitalist status quo is bigger than myself, and it is what I dedicate myself to. Hah. Sure you do. You dedicate yourself to _self-interest_. If the capitalist status quo would be best served by you being utterly and permanently destroyed, you wouldn’t be volunteering for obliteration. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/146 "2019-10-12T05:36:08Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If the capitalist status quo would be best served by you being utterly and permanently destroyed, you wouldn’t be volunteering for obliteration. “If.” ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/147 "2019-10-12T05:42:23Z")
Well, now we know what you are Gesakaarin. Everything else is just haggling over price. ---
**Author:** ![Cassie\_Bourschied](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cassie_bourschied/32/163234_2.png) [@Cassie\_Bourschied](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cassie_Bourschied)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/148 "2019-10-12T05:50:01Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > The more traditional term for one who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing is “a cynic,” Well , generally , the cost of things is determined by the perceived value. which came first ; the chicken or the egg ? Which came first ; the cost or the perceived value ? I doubt that one who knew the value of everything but the cost of nothing would be any kind of improvement on the cynic. ---
**Author:** ![Cassie\_Bourschied](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cassie_bourschied/32/163234_2.png) [@Cassie\_Bourschied](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cassie_Bourschied)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/149 "2019-10-12T05:51:42Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > “If.” Yes , a great many "if’s " , and a whole lot of totally bogus comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/150 "2019-10-12T06:23:51Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > Everything else is just haggling over price. Only if it’s in my self-interest to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/151 "2019-10-15T09:20:03Z")
Gesakaarin; it is a well-known fact that Rebellions rarely start in places that are the worst off. Fighting back requires organisation, it requires resources, it requires an unbroken spirit, co-operation with others instead of barely being able to save your own skin. It is not a coincidence that last New Year and after, the most successful Rebellion after Deathglow happened in Thebeka - a relatively well-off, wealthy, and well-governed high-sec space planet, for some the _model_ of well-kept slave estates. It is also not a coincidence that there was very little of the same in Anath, Fabai - a 0.1 sec-rated place in a rather sorry state and in need of humanitarian aid even _without_ Blood Raider “help”. To be able to see evil in the misuse of power and to crave freedom from it you have to be in a position where you can first _see_ the evil, then realise things _are_ different in other parts of the cluster, and then _act_. It is the responsibility of those who have these possibilities to do, or at least start, the work. Successful Rebellions start not from the bottom, not from the “starving and illiterate”. Such revolts are easily suppressed, either by force or by promising a few concessions in material conditions, or the replacement of a truly evil Lord by a largely indifferent or benevolent Holder. Successful revolutions start from the middle, from those who can clearly see both the high and the low. They are started and lead by those who do not fight for _personal betterment_ of their lives, but for the good of _all_ of their kin. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/152 "2019-10-15T09:43:34Z")
While I cannot disagree with what you said, intellectually, or as an abstract concept, I fear I lost the ability to make effective moral judgements as regards good or evil. My decision making reflects either failure or success and in my experience that can involve a bit of both good and evil – it’s hard to tell sometimes, for me. I suppose in addition I’ve seen too much, the realities behind the public masks of people who speak with _good intentions_ but have none in private, that I’ve become a bit innured to those who speak of noble deeds. All too often it’s a path to misdeeds without any nobility attached. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/153 "2019-10-15T09:49:45Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > I fear I lost the ability to make effective moral judgements as regards good or evil If you want to keep on telling yourself that, you might want to refrain from comments like “the victims of such violence will not be you, protected as you are, but all those you will fail to protect in your grasping for some semblance of purpose in your life”. You are not free of sentiment or moral judgments, Veikitamo Gesakaarin. You _wish_ you were, and through that desire you manage to _almost_ make yourself so disconnected from your spirit that you do not _notice_ your own moral values. But you _are_ still human and your sentiments are still there. When you do not watch yourself they slip in and reveal your true nature. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/154 "2019-10-15T10:24:31Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > You are not free of sentiment or moral judgments, Veikitamo Gesakaarin. You _wish_ you were, and through that desire you manage to _almost_ make yourself so disconnected from your spirit that you do not _notice_ your own moral values. But you _are_ still human and your sentiments are still there. When you do not watch yourself they slip in and reveal your true nature. Maybe. Maybe leading a life in accordance with _Exitus Acta Probat_ takes its own toll upon the spirit. Either way, I doubt monsters get written into redemption stories. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/155 "2019-10-15T10:33:09Z")
People who call themselves monsters rarely really are. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/156 "2019-10-15T11:29:20Z")
Who knows with me. I’ve had to do some reprehensible actions in my life in the pursuit of the objective, the end goal, but in the end the dead cannot forgive the damned. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/157 "2019-10-15T11:30:36Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > I’ve had to do some reprehensible actions in my life in the pursuit of the objective, the end goal, but in the end the dead cannot forgive the damned. What was that about you being unable to make moral judgements? ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/158 "2019-10-15T11:37:40Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > People who call themselves monsters rarely really are. If they can still recognise their actions as monstrous, there’s still a glimmer of humanity left in them. It’s when they no longer can tell the difference that they have truly become the Beast. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/159 "2019-10-15T12:09:38Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > What was that about you being unable to make moral judgements? I suppose I still can, I’m just unsure if I’ve become so cynical I can no longer exercise them. ---
**Author:** ![Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaven_lok_ri/32/293159_2.png) [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaven_Lok_ri)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415/160 "2019-10-15T21:38:59Z")
The Thebeka Rebellion lasted longer than others because of two reasons: 1. It was the least hardened against Deathglow model attacks, meaning initial rioting was worse. 2. It had the most concentrated outside support pour in. The fact that Thebeka was well governed and so on doesn’t really factor. If anything, that good governance directly contributed to the reality that the Rebellion ended within mere months without the level of devastation seen on Kahah. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cavtt-the-test-of-faith/193415.md?page=9)