# CCP as a company is an alcoholic, and its liver (read community) is riddled with an insidious unseen cirrhosis **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2026, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451 "2026-04-24T15:34:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Meridan\_Night](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meridan_night/32/488304_2.png) [@Meridan\_Night](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meridan_Night)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/67 "2026-04-26T04:44:38Z")
> [@Remi\_Lacroix](#): > > I got into it on discord about that setting the last time I was in null and it did not make me any friends when I pointed it out. > > `esi-mail.send_mail.v1` > > - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail) > > Oh, they can also manipulate your mails > > `esi-mail.organize_mail.v1` > > - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/labels/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-labels) > - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/labels/{label\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-labels-label-id) > - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/{mail\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-mail-id) Is that for real? This ESI system is so complicated it’s very difficult to understand for somebody who is illiterate in coding (me). I’ve never given my ESI to any entity. i only gave permissions with the old API system, but that did NOT include the ability for third parties to send mails in my name. If that is true what you’re saying, I would never give said access to any corp or entity in EVE. That is so messed up, I am surprised it’s even in there. Isn’t that sort of thing a violation of CCP’s own policies, not to mention some laws in some of the EU countries? ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 4:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/68 "2026-04-26T04:45:56Z")
As far as I understand yes. I also am not a coder so there is a lot I do not understand. When I got into on discord about that nobody wanted to explain it to me and just wanted to gloss over it. It is a real setting though. I edited the manipulation of mails out because they could already do that with other settings. You’re giving them permission to manipulate a whole lot of your account. [https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/scopes](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/scopes) ---
**Author:** ![Meridan\_Night](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meridan_night/32/488304_2.png) [@Meridan\_Night](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meridan_Night)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/69 "2026-04-26T04:50:13Z")
Well, I hope somebody on the forums with actual coding experience can explain it. Because that is quite disturbing. @Gloria_Exercitus didn’t you have coding experience? EDIT: I think the send mail part might be there for use with some third party app that allows one to read and send mails without logging into EVE. There used to be CCP’s own EVE Gate for that, but that is long gone. I’m not aware of any third party apps that provide that sort of service currently, but there might be some. So it can be useful under some circumstances. But no way would I be comfortable giving this permission to another EVE entity (corp, alliance, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/70 "2026-04-26T04:55:33Z")
Oh here’s another one that gives me pause. `esi-characters.write_contacts.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/contacts/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-contacts) The reason I believe it is as written is because this setting `esi-fittings.write_fittings.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/fittings/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-fittings) - [/characters/{character\_id}/fittings/{fitting\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-fittings-fitting-id) allows them to add doctrine ship fittings to your account. Most of the settings are read only. The ones that write are the ones that give me pause. `esi-fleets.write_fleet.v1` - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/members/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-members) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/members/{member\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-members-member-id) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/squads/{squad\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-squads-squad-id) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/wings/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-wings) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/wings/{wing\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-wings-wing-id) - [/fleets/{fleet\_id}/wings/{wing\_id}/squads/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/fleets-fleet-id-wings-wing-id-squads) `esi-mail.organize_mail.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/labels/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-labels) - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/labels/{label\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-labels-label-id) - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/{mail\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-mail-id) `esi-mail.read_mail.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail) - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/labels/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-labels) - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/lists/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-lists) - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/{mail\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail-mail-id) `esi-mail.send_mail.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/mail/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-mail) It’s not sent mail, it’s send. That concerns me. The other write functions manipulate corp and alliance fittings, fleet settings, things that are necessary for uniform corp and alliance. `esi-planets.manage_planets.v1` - [/characters/{character\_id}/planets/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-planets) - [/characters/{character\_id}/planets/{planet\_id}/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/characters-character-id-planets-planet-id) `esi-ui.open_window.v1` - [/ui/openwindow/contract/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/ui-openwindow-contract) - [/ui/openwindow/information/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/ui-openwindow-information) - [/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/ui-openwindow-marketdetails) - [/ui/openwindow/newmail/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/ui-openwindow-newmail) `esi-ui.write_waypoint.v1` - [/ui/autopilot/waypoint/](https://skoli.ru/en/apis/eve-online/ui-autopilot-waypoint) ![Screenshot 2026-04-26 001801](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/optimized/4X/6/e/9/6e918a34ae28765685c7769401b6cf8b106921c6_2_690x66.jpeg) And it isnt for the corp welcome mails. The corp i am in has a welcome mail and no esi/api to agree or disagree with ---
**Author:** ![Remi\_Lacroix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remi_lacroix/32/494680_2.png) [@Remi\_Lacroix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remi_Lacroix)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 5:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/71 "2026-04-26T05:07:28Z")
If I am understanding this all correctly, when you agree to give esi/api you’re giving them access to some things they simply should not have access to. I do not think I would be the only one to have actually looked at what permissions I agree to so that is why I am unsure. Knowing the history of null groups in particular and how many of them used to dox and harrass people irl for their game wars I just dont feel comfortable and I do not know anyone that can pick the code apart to see what is really going on. I would hope that CCP would prevent the things that I am concerned with. So I am just unsure whether i am understanding this all correctly. If I am not than I apologize. i do not mean to make groups appear nefarious with permissions. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Dyneaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_dyneaux/32/510758_2.png) [@Anna\_Dyneaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Dyneaux)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/72 "2026-04-26T09:19:01Z")
Yeah, send mail lets you send mail with that character. You can give this a try in the Tritanium app, I use it on occasion to respond to correspondence while I’m travelling irl. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/73 "2026-04-26T11:16:59Z")
Good gawd this is a horrible thread. I have a very social job (massage therapy) on my days off I like to either play games all day or read, or volunteer helping other humans, Not a damn thing wrong with maybe one day a week or every couple of weeks doing that, especially if the weather is crap and you cant enjoy touching grass ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/74 "2026-04-26T11:42:54Z")
I’ve never flown two characters at same time. Sounds boring. I only have one account and play two characters, one at a time (one of them is a trader that sits in stations most of time anyway). Never understood the hardon people have for multiboxing, sounds like waste of money and time. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/75 "2026-04-26T11:53:18Z")
well, a second account is a _very_ sharp spike in independence. Because you can check situations with a cloaky scout before jumping/warping an expensive ship into a completely hopeless trap. Especially outside of HS, many groups or playstiles almost require the players to have 2 accounts. Of course, if one only plays in the primetime when the group can cover the need for scouts or support, it’s okay to only have one. But that is very limiting in certain scenarios or very small groups. I agree tho that everything beyond two or max three (if one is a capital ship user) is pure greed and shouldn’t be supported by the game in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/76 "2026-04-26T11:54:25Z")
I just solo all the time, i do lowsec solo pvp (sometimes null). If i get gatecamped, meh, ■■■■ happens, and theres tools to check for things if im concerned. But always one character. If i had two, i would not have as much fun. ---
**Author:** ![Asgidur\_Hurtini](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/asgidur_hurtini/32/494282_2.png) [@Asgidur\_Hurtini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Asgidur_Hurtini)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/77 "2026-04-26T11:55:15Z")
I think, I also don’t have multibox, it’s not about hardon, it’s more about getting things done and being more self sufficient. Imagine WoW, if you ever played, and you now tanking, healing and applying damage. Since EVE is so easy to play and sync actions, multiboxing got this new absurd dimension. The hardon is probably on achieving the results alone where a group is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/78 "2026-04-26T11:56:37Z")
Yeah it just sounds like being afraid of losing things, in game where losing things is big part of it. If i see explosion, be it my own ship or someone elses, i have had good gaming session. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/79 "2026-04-26T12:02:00Z")
That would require that you either have an unlimited income source to constantly replace your losses (aka credit card) or just sticking to the cheapest ships around (aka frigs/destroyers) to be able to replace them easily with some sort of ingame grind. But since EVE offers a wide selection of ships, some _very very expensive_ which are also fun to fly, of course people don’t want to simply _waste_ them. And jumping a gate and end up in a 20 man gang with instatackle ready isn’t resulting in any kind of “fight”, it’s just a pointless massacre and then you have to somehow waste an amount of X to re-grind the ISK to replace that ship. Thats doesn’t mean you are ultimately risk-averse, just waste-averse. ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/80 "2026-04-26T12:07:18Z")
Sure, i fly mostly destroyers. My trader alt makes me enough bank to keep reshipping, and i also sell the loot i get from other ships. My playstyle is not for fresh newbies thats for sure, but its not unattainable. And expensive ships, i do fly those at times too, but i prefer usually agile ones. I get your point but when the risk-averseness gets into the point where someone needs more than one account to feel safe.. Something is wrong. Though i dont think eve was never meant to feel very safe, which is why i like it: anything can happen and its exciting, keeps me undocking. I am not saying that your feelings of the game are invalid, just like my feelings are not either. I am mostly voicing my brainfarts so some poor intern reading these forums at CCP can write notes. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/81 "2026-04-26T12:29:46Z")
> [@Hun\_Tra](#): > > I am not saying that your feelings of the game are invalid, just like my feelings are not either. Your feelings about the game are perfectly valid, especially when playing like the way you do. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/82 "2026-04-26T14:29:34Z")
> [@Meridan\_Night](#): > > Well, I hope somebody on the forums with actual coding experience can explain it. Because that is quite disturbing. > > @Gloria_Exercitus didn’t you have coding experience? I’ve never heard of being able to send emails in someone’s name…but, the API system used by a corp I have been in shows date and time and recipient of my emails to me, so I’m guessing anyone with supervisor access to that system _would_ see who I have emailed and who has emailed me. The API shows my ISK value, my ships, my training such as what I am training for, my location, and a bunch more. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/83 "2026-04-26T14:47:32Z")
> [@Hun\_Tra](#): > > I get your point but when the risk-averseness gets into the point where someone needs more than one account to feel safe.. Something is wrong. Though i dont think eve was never meant to feel very safe, which is why i like it: anything can happen and its exciting, keeps me undocking. I don’t ever see the point in losing something un-necessarily. To me there’s a difference between being risk averse and simply being sensible. Why send a several hundred million ISK ship into lowsec without checking for a gate camp ? An alt in a shuttle does the job nicely. Likewise all the lowsec systems I visit regularly have bookmarks within them 150km from each gate…so i dont warp directly to the gates but see what is there first. To me that all just makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/84 "2026-04-26T18:48:50Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > simply being sensible. Why send a several hundred million ISK ship into lowsec without checking for a gate camp I am not very sensible 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Hatch\_Nasty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hatch_nasty/32/512820_2.png) [@Hatch\_Nasty](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hatch_Nasty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/86 "2026-04-26T19:33:20Z")
> [@Meridan\_Night](#): > > It still perplexes me that all their members are willing to hand over that kind of info to them for free. It’s not handed over for free. It’s handed over in exchange for access to the corporation, alliance, and/or coalition resources, which in some cases, are pretty significant. That’s the reason people join corps that have ESI requirements, and the reason why those ESI requirements exist. It’s not for the purposes of voyeurism. It’s for the protection of those valuable resources. Besides, it’s just a game. I’m one of the most privacy-minded people you’ll meet, but there’s nothing in EVE that ties back to my IRL identity. So who cares if some corp director might potentially know what my fictional game character is up to? I very much detest the “if you’ve got nothing to hide…” excuse for IRL privacy invasion, but within the context of a game—particularly a social game, like EVE—it kind of applies. If you’re not spying, plotting the downfall of a corp, or doing something nefarious or predatory, what exactly is the harm? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2026, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451/89 "2026-04-26T20:02:21Z")
> [@Hatch\_Nasty](#): > > It’s for the protection of those valuable resources. And you get that from checking what? Mails? Wallets? Contracts? of an applicant? What prevents him from simply deleting suspicious communication? And whats suspicious about getting money or paying money to/from the corp or to/from corpmates of the corp you were previously in? I am really curious what they are hoping to find? With a little bit of luck you may catch absolutely dumb/obvious ones - but those are usually people who would never get access to vital positions anyway. And the smart ones have no traces of suspicion to find in their API/ESI information… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-as-a-company-is-an-alcoholic-and-its-liver-read-community-is-riddled-with-an-insidious-unseen-cirrhosis/510451.md?page=4)