# CCP can get rid of attributes but keep learning implants **URL:** \ **Category:** Skill Discussion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023 "2019-08-20T12:53:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/21 "2019-08-21T02:32:29Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > You had me going there… some of those points were really good. But then I saw these, and realized you’re just retarded. Im a mad genius like that. reducing hac requirements from level 5 cruiser to level 4 will help encourage excitement and keep people in the game. The most rewarding things about eve’s progression syste is unlocking new stuff to try, its one of the aspects of game play that really make eve enjoyable (again aspects of “player expressive content”). Shifting the training of omega to enabling all characters on account helps significantly combat alt spam. Think about it. If you have 3 toons that can master industry, you will need less accounts to maintain your production (etc) levels. This ultimately means that players will need to maintain less accounts to be competitive, and as a result, less toons. It also makes the subscription model more important. > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Omega getting more SP is to entice players to stop being freaking street corner beggars asking for free handouts. It’s to encourage people to pay for the game so the company can make some money. Im not a fan of the injectors and i definitely think the extractors need to go. “Booster packs” are more modern and less problematic, and having the subscription due the same mechanic seems redundant. Overall income will increase if you have to boost 3 toons and skill points will be more easily distributed with training 3 toons at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/22 "2019-08-21T02:46:46Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Still pointless… As it stands, each skill has associated Attributes that influence the passive SP gain. But that has ZERO influence over Skill Injection. If you queue up a Mining skill, and a Diplomacy skill, and you hit the Injector, they’ll both gain just as much regardless of how you’re Mapped or what Implants you have. So CCP has already demonstrated that Attributes have no bearing on Liquid SP being squirted into your brain. Not everyone uses injectors, so still useful and won’t crash the LP market. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/23 "2019-08-21T22:32:45Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > reducing hac requirements from level 5 cruiser to level 4 will help encourage excitement and keep people in the game. The most rewarding things about eve’s progression syste is unlocking new stuff to try, its one of the aspects of game play that really make eve enjoyable (again aspects of “player expressive content”). But you shouldn’t be flying a HAC within your first week. The ships in Eve are the characters and classes from other games. You start out weak and wimpy, and you get a bit stronger in whatever aspect you pursue over time. T2 specialty ships are for focusing into specific aspects of whatever career path you chose. You could PvP fit anything, but a HAC or a Recon is a specific approach. Lowering the bar on that means weakening the specialists in their fields. Striving for excellence should still be necessary. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Shifting the training of omega to enabling all characters on account helps significantly combat alt spam. Think about it. If you have 3 toons that can master industry, you will need less accounts to maintain your production (etc) levels. This will never happen, b/c they’ve figured out that you can charge someone an extra month’s subscription just to unlock training. So they’re going to stick with that model b/c it nets them extra cash. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Not everyone uses injectors, so still useful and won’t crash the LP market. Like I said, people will still buy the Implants for their primary uses. If you want a bit of extra Armor, then you’ll buy the Low Grade Slaves. If you have money to spend, and you want a lot of Armor, then you’ll still buy the High Grade Slaves. The only difference, which I can just about guarantee you is not a deciding factor on whether people buy Low, Mid, or High Grade Implants, is the extra +1 or +5 to Intelligence. If they’re worried about training speeds, they already have an extra Clone body with a full set of generic +5 Implants w/o any extra benefits. By getting rid of Attributes and their influences, you free up people to train what they want, when they want. And they can Implant whatever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/24 "2019-08-21T22:46:43Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > But you shouldn’t be flying a HAC within your first week. You wont. It will still take a few months to do it, just not 5-6. Also, I do not agree that it should take years on end to get in a ship and fly it properly. > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > The ships in Eve are the characters and classes from other games. You start out weak and wimpy, and you get a bit stronger in whatever aspect you pursue over time. This is actually a really bad way of looking at this. For the most part, Eve is not a VP oriented game, its HP based. Its more of a side grade with slightly more power. > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Lowering the bar on that means weakening the specialists in their fields. No it does not. Its just a monopoly you and others way to put on people. The Isk-psychology bar will control if they will fly it or not, but the skill reduce controls if they can fly it or not. It should not take 3-5 months to train to hacks or commandships. > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Striving for excellence should still be necessary. Eve has many mechanically related things that need to be learnt that are not even dealing with skill points (like advanced movement tactics (such as spiraling)). People will always be looking for excellence with these sorts of things, and builds. **Excellence is in the skill play and the advancement of it, not the skill point play.** > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > This will never happen, b/c they’ve figured out that you can charge someone an extra month’s subscription just to unlock training. So they’re going to stick with that model b/c it nets them extra cash. I can argue that this is not widely implemented. Further, i can make a strong argument that if the above change was to happen (ie changing to sub unlocking all of an account) It would circumvent the aspects of “play for free” and improve income for ccp. A test for a few months would validate this. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/25 "2019-08-21T23:03:36Z")
learnings were a complete uter crap. Want to start the game ? Wait 2 month that your learning are trained to start training useful skills. It was effectively a _delay_ before training your toon of 2 months. Who needs that ? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/26 "2019-08-22T00:09:01Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Like I said, people will still buy the Implants for their primary uses. If you want a bit of extra Armor, then you’ll buy the Low Grade Slaves. If you have money to spend, and you want a lot of Armor, then you’ll still buy the High Grade Slaves. The only difference, which I can just about guarantee you is not a deciding factor on whether people buy Low, Mid, or High Grade Implants, is the extra +1 or +5 to Intelligence. If they’re worried about training speeds, they already have an extra Clone body with a full set of generic +5 Implants w/o any extra benefits. So you’re saying there is demand for learning implants purchased from LP, which don’t affect ship attributes. Great - you agree with me! ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/27 "2019-08-25T04:33:19Z")
Q: Are you willing to bring SP loss back from death? > A: We wouldn’t want to directly bring back the same SP loss. There is something there with Jump Clones having different roles. There should be an aspect of “I am putting chips on the table” possibly past implants. Q:Neocron idea - Temporary loss when you died, debuffs to progression > A:Possibly the opposite would be better, lose SP when you die and then SP comes back faster. Permadeath is an interesting mechanic we would like to explore. Q:You’ve added a lot of risk, when will you add rewards? > A:Now that the faucet has turned off, we have room to start giving rewards. We are going to be careful about where to place them and they won’t be predictable Q:If you die, could a ship be locked and you couldn’t fly that ship again? > A:This is one of many mechanics we could look at. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-can-get-rid-of-attributes-but-keep-learning-implants/184023/28 "2019-11-23T04:33:21Z")
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