# CCP Cancels WIS and then Tease It... 👀

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076>\
**Category:** General Discussion\
**Created:** [November 18, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076 "2022-11-18T20:25:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 15

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**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/286 "2023-01-21T12:28:26Z")

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[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/3/5/33592f9ec97ffdf444ff0e34c0b2176f55c53c86.jpeg "These Legendary Fortnite Dances Have Voices (Rollie/Rolex - Ayo & Teo, Say So, Scenario..)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpYFdpY2C5A)

24millions of views

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**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/287 "2023-01-21T13:05:07Z")

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I’m pretty sure WiS would actually have been successful if they didn’t introduced a single room without any functionality during a time where the actual game was in complete shambles and literally unplayable, on top of the fact that they over-hyped it for years with casino footage and stories of back alley black market dealings and what not.

The reason WiS failed is not the absence of interest from players in the feature, although they blamed that in the end. It’s 120% CCP’s fault for their completely useless tech demo marketed as a feature at the completely wrong time.

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**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/288 "2023-01-21T13:21:27Z")

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Agreed, to some extent.

WiS failed because it was introduced in the wrong way, at the wrong time, after CCP’s usual “Something AWESOME coming your way!” blog-nonsense and then a ridiculously poor implementation.

However, there **is** still a significant disconnect between the ships-in-space game, and the “avatars in stations” game. In ground-based avatar play, players have incentive to bling their avatars - the avatar is **them**. it’s constantly there, visible to all other players in game-meaningful interactions.

If I can dunk you and then do a victory dance on your head, then the dance is something that adds to the game.

If I dunk you and then have to say “Lol hey man sorry about that, tell you what, let’s both go to the nearest station, exit ship, meet in the lobby, and then you can lie down and I’ll do my dunk-dance on you and buy you a drink after, okay?”.

Yeah, no, that ain’t going anywhere.

That said, there’s no way in hell players wouldn’t be throwing ISK at Aiko to see some of the above dances done with an appropriate soundtrack. Start with the bar man, it’s the PULSE of EVE!

(Heck, we even have an NPC corp that apparently does light-tracing animation/motion capture, let’s put them to work!)

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**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/289 "2023-01-21T18:03:13Z")

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> [@Karak\_Terrel](#):
>
> WiS would actually have been successful if they didn’t introduced a single room without any functionality

And what kind of functionality could/should they have included? I love a good character creator and playing with avatars but I’m not cconvinced there is a way for WiS to actually add to EVE gameplay-wise, particularly when weighed against the development and maintenance costs.

I haven’t yet seen anyone propose one single functional gameplay idea regarding WiS (vague fantasies of “backroom negotiations”, “spying” and “assasinations” are not gameplay ideas), so I’m not convinced it’s anything more than a superficial “but it would look so rad and all the other cool games are doing it!”. Do I have to explain why just making WiS a way to do the same stuff - fit the ship, buy goods, talk to agents, etc., only with extra time and effort involved, is a terrible idea? If there are more fleshed out concepts, I’d love to hear them.

As it stands, I feel that WiS is doomed to be used by a small minority of roleplayers and ignored by the majority at tremendous development cost. You’re asking for a separate game with no clear gameplay loop to be created from the ground up and tacked onto EVE. It doesn’t make sense. At least Dust 514 was gameplay focused from the start, not a vanity chatroom concept desperately trying to justify its existence.

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**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/290 "2023-01-21T19:25:04Z")

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> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#):
>
> I’d love to hear them.

No. You will also not find the threads with proposals, or even CCP demos of avatar exploration.

You are too bad at searching.

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**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/291 "2023-01-21T22:12:45Z")

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Perhaps it’s WiS enthusiasts who are bad at formulating and presenting their vision to other players.

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**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/292 "2023-01-21T22:36:49Z")

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No, its you not wanting it.

BTW, nobody even needed to convince me, I wanted WIS before I even started playing EVE.

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**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/293 "2023-01-21T23:04:16Z")

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> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#):
>
> I haven’t yet seen anyone propose one single functional gameplay idea regarding WiS

Ah, yes. The ranting of the willfully blind. Pretty sure I know whose alt you are.

I could take the time to find you 50 links to legit gameplay suggestions for avatar gameplay. And five or more of those would be from CCP devs presenting at various EVE events. But since you’d start qualifying and backtracking, there’s no point.

If you truly have never heard “one functional gameplay idea regarding WIS”, well… vOv

Mr Epeen 🕶

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**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\
**Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/294 "2023-01-21T23:22:02Z")

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> BTW, nobody even needed to convince me, I wanted WIS before I even started playing EVE.

The idea is obviously superficially attractive (I liked it and defended it at first too). And like I said, the roleplayers would definitely go wild over it. But that’s not what I’m talking about - I’m talking about the reality of actually implementing it in the real game and the costs/benefits balance involved.

> Pretty sure I know whose alt you are.

Ah yes, the old “Everyone who disagrees with me is an alt” gambit. Sometimes the level of paranoia and assuming of bad fath this game induces is decidedly unhealthy.

> I could take the time to find you 50 links to legit gameplay suggestions for avatar gameplay. And five or more of those would be from CCP devs presenting at various EVE events. But since you’d start qualifying and backtracking, there’s no point.

Backtracking on what? I’d be happy to check them out, whether they’d convince me is another matter (I think I might’ve even watched some of the presentations years ago but don’t remember any specific gameplay concepts). I’d have no problem saying “ok so there actually are specific gameplay proposals, here’s what I think about them”. Both of you assuming there is no point backing up your argument (because I’m an evil hater) doesn’t help dispel my point about WiS proponents being bad at presenting their vision.

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**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\
**Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/295 "2023-01-22T17:13:13Z")

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> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#):
>
> You’re asking for a separate game with no clear gameplay loop to be created from the ground up and tacked onto EVE.

I did? I wasn’t aware of that.

I thought I simply shared an observation about what was happening when they delivered WiS back in the day.

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**Author:** ![OId\_SouI1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oid_soui1/32/436556_2.png) [@OId\_SouI1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/OId_SouI1)\
**Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/296 "2023-01-22T23:10:13Z")

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Space sex.

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**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\
**Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/297 "2023-01-23T04:06:34Z")

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> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#):
>
> (I think I might’ve even watched some of the presentations years ago but don’t remember any specific gameplay concepts).

Then you must have Alzheimer’s disease.

After the infamous ‘Summer Of Rage’, CCP revisited Avatar gameplay content and started working on an Avatar Exploration Concept where 2 or more Avatar’s would enter a Hacking site and explore / loot it, all based on FPS style. The premise was to have AoE traps with Hacking along with the FPS content.

Unfortunately the game would crash when they loaded up the site with more than 2 Avatars.

As for the rest of your statements, there were plenty of Avatar based gameplay ideas submitted from the playerbase. [Here’s some of the ideas I posted years ago.](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-return-to-the-captains-lounge-or-what-ever-it-was-called/294705/15)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\
**Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/298 "2023-01-23T06:37:37Z")

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> [@OId\_SouI1](#):
>
> Space sex.

Sex sells.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\
**Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/299 "2023-01-26T21:24:39Z")

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> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#):
>
> Then you must have Alzheimer’s disease.

I didn’t say there weren’t any in that particular presentation, just that I didn’t remember them. If you remember everything you watched on YouTube 10 years ago… congrats I guess?

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**Author:** ![Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuro_kanashimi/32/351894_2.png) [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuro_Kanashimi)\
**Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/300 "2023-01-26T23:15:27Z")

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> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#):
>
> Then you must have Alzheimer’s disease.

Oof.

That abelism.

> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#):
>
> I didn’t say there weren’t any in that particular presentation, just that I didn’t remember them. If you remember everything you watched on YouTube 10 years ago… congrats I guess?

Welcome to the sad reality that a dude that wrote a pretty useful guide is an absolute veld pancake.

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**Author:** ![Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzashrah_praankar/32/354043_2.png) [@Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzashrah_Praankar)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/301 "2023-01-27T05:21:12Z")

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> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#):
>
> Name me a story that’s come out of null in the past month.

Mittens is back ganking.  
 ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/0/0/2002060a882e734b7359b943949656572892b608.gif)

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**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/302 "2023-01-27T10:36:24Z")

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is WiS finally implemented?

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**Author:** ![Flamespar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flamespar/32/382933_2.png) [@Flamespar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flamespar)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/303 "2023-01-31T23:38:41Z")

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I would like WiS to finally happen as I’d like to see the EVE universe from another angle instead of just spacesherps.

One of the problems with WiS originally was that it was developed and announced during the time when CCP developers used to walk on stage at FanFest, go into a trance, and start saying whatever random ■■■■ sounded cool and got applause.

WiS aside, there is a hell of a lot of stuff that were mentioned at thoses fanfests that never made it into the game.

It’s why FanFests nowadays are so tame and dull … CCP are trying to be realistic about what they can actually deliver, which in the 12 months between fanfests, isn’t all that much.

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**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\
**Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/304 "2023-02-01T06:26:56Z")

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Imagine EVE with more WiS and less highsec ganking and wardecing. I would pay to watch the show.

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**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\
**Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/305 "2023-02-01T14:11:25Z")

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an eve online show?

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