# CCP Cancels WIS and then Tease It... 👀 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076 "2022-11-18T20:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/123 "2022-11-21T14:49:03Z")
Was this press release not ages ago? More than a week and CCP will have got bored and moved on. Just look at WiS. ---
**Author:** ![x123xxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/x123xxx/32/247890_2.png) [@x123xxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/x123xxx)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/124 "2022-11-21T15:02:22Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > CCP is committed to offering an innovative multiplayer shooter with atmospheric visuals. [DUST 514](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_514) ? ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/125 "2022-11-21T16:20:57Z")
Mmhm. So the second highest PCU ever just _happened_ to coincide with the release of the new character creator system (Jan. 18th 2011) (63,170 @ Jan 23rd)? Also generated the most amount of new accounts back then, though that number has been surpassed many times since. AFAIK only time PCU has been higher was for EVE’s 10th year anniversary, May 5th of 2013 (65,303), and that was a concerted effort to log in every alt possible. EVE going freemium in 2016 didn’t get even close (51,082), btw, despite setting the most new accounts created record by a wide margin. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/126 "2022-11-21T17:31:41Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Mmhm. So the second highest PCU ever just _happened_ to coincide with the release of the new character creator system (Jan. 18th 2011) (63,170 @ Jan 23rd)? Also generated the most amount of new accounts back then, though that number has been surpassed many times since. Uh unless you got proof that is the exact reason it bumped? Yes, coincidence 😃 You realize you just saying it is correlated, does not make it so right? Good try tho 😃 If you need WiS, play NMS. Its pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/127 "2022-11-21T18:14:02Z")
How about you prove that those two events aren’t linked? Like seriously, if you need to deny reality that bad, go visit the Nile. ---
**Author:** ![x123xxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/x123xxx/32/247890_2.png) [@x123xxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/x123xxx)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/128 "2022-11-21T18:22:11Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Like seriously, if you need to deny reality that bad, go visit the Nile. I đŸ’•â€đŸ’• your response. Some people argue for the sake of arguing. I loved the Captain’s Quarters and the whole idea of WiS. I hope the the folks at [Pearl Abyss](https://www.pearlabyss.com/en-US/IR/Governance) at least consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/129 "2022-11-21T19:10:58Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > How about you prove that those two events aren’t linked? Like seriously, if you need to deny reality that bad, go visit the Nile. My quafewaffle, you made the claim. The onus is on you to prove it 😃 I get in these shallower times, people don’t understand how to debate and argue, so I shalt educate you for charity’s sake 😃 You made the claim, you provide the proof. If you can’t, then you retract bruv 😃 > [@x123xxx](#): > > I đŸ’•â€đŸ’• your response. Some people argue for the sake of arguing. I loved the Captain’s Quarters and the whole idea of WiS. I hope the the folks at [Pearl Abyss](https://www.pearlabyss.com/en-US/IR/Governance) at least consider it. Except she’s arguing in bad faith 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/130 "2022-11-21T20:09:54Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Except she’s arguing in bad faith And you’re being an un-cooperative ass just because you can. I.e. Pot calling the kettle black. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/131 "2022-11-21T20:11:57Z")
Not really, it isn’t my fault you find the truth inconvenient 😃 You made the claim, you provides the proof or retract. It’s that simple bruv 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/132 "2022-11-21T20:26:48Z")
It is literally impossible to prove something like that 100%. But if you weren’t yourself arguing in bad faith, you’d at least acknowledge that the proximity of the two dates could be indicative of correlation, if not causation. But instead you just focus on cutesy trolling. So yeah, have fun with that. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/133 "2022-11-21T20:39:31Z")
> [@x123xxx](#): > > I loved the Captain’s Quarters and the whole idea of WiS. I hope the the folks at [Pearl Abyss](https://www.pearlabyss.com/en-US/IR/Governance) at least consider it. Personally, I don’t much care either way. EVE is primarily spaceships and economy and industry, and in-person 3D avatars don’t really complement that. On the other hand, if a feature is good and attracts some people, why not have it? Here are the arguments I see **FOR** WiS: - Some people enjoy avatar play and it might help some players immersion. - CCP is working on an EVE-related FPS which will obviously have 3D avatars, why not work it in? - Any team working on CQ/WiS/avatar play isn’t directly “taking away” from other game elements - they wouldn’t be the same team. Ship balance, security region design etc. would all be elsewhere. - In the previous CQ, there were some periods in which you could get pretty cool views of your ship and docking bay, which is about the only “spaceship” related benefit it had. - Avatar play would open up new income streams for CCP. - **IF** (and that’s a big ‘if’) new gameplay elements could be introduced with it, it might expand playstyle / activity options. Arguments against WiS: - It’s a tacked-on sideshow. Ships in Space doesn’t use the avatars in any way. And CCP tends to do things half-assed or quarter-assed, so we’re unlikely to end up with a good implementation. - Even though it would be a different dev team, every dev being paid to make WiS is one less dev developing spaceship content. It only works if an existing team not doing much else is re-purposed. - CCP has been focusing for a while on what I think of as “graphics bloat”. IE, “hey we can’t think of any new content/gameplay so instead we’re going to put in BRIGHT GLARING nebulae, shinier ships, glowier menus, blinking lights and neon bars and call it a ‘content release’.” - The games been getting laggier, WiS would likely add to that. - Regardless of all the “Hey it would be so cool!” votes, WiS still **has no actual game purpose** within EVE. There is literally no gameplay element of EVE that would be improved by WiS/CQ. So that brings me to a couple thoughts. First, saying “Pearl Abyss does avatars, they should look into this” is a red herring. PA stated before the purchase and after that they were leaving CCP to do their own thing independently. Despite all the moaning about “game went downhill after PA”, PA has shown no indication of interfering with (or assisting) CCP. Second, all the people saying “WiS cool yes bring it!” need to say **what would you do with your avatar in station**? All the puffery about “mug someone and take his stuff!”, “stab someone in a bar”, “do a contract face to face” is, quite frankly, nonsense. What exactly do you expect an avatar to have on him to steal? You figure he’s got a backpack full of Plex? Stab someone? He’s an immortal pod clone. Do contracts? Can already do them faster and easier. If gambling was available _only_ in-station, that might attract a few people. Other than that, what are you gonna do? One person said “I mine, run L4s, and abyssals - I want WiS”. Okay, you want it
 but it’s not gonna help you mine, mission or abyss. So basically you’re saying “When I’m not actually playing I want my avatar to lean against the wall in a shady dive and smoke.” Or something. “ **New EVE Career** : sit at a desk and process shipping manifests for an NPC corp” doesn’t exactly add a lot of sparkle to the game, IMO. Until people can come up with actual, gameplay activities that would be better achieved in-station with an avatar rather than using the regular UI, there’s no purpose to WiS in EVE other than “we need more graphics bloat”. ---
**Author:** ![Tenger\_Ondor\_Khaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tenger_ondor_khaan/32/357667_2.png) [@Tenger\_Ondor\_Khaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tenger_Ondor_Khaan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/134 "2022-11-21T20:43:59Z")
Could you imagine the bar fights ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/135 "2022-11-21T21:15:18Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > It is literally impossible to prove something like that 100%. But if you weren’t yourself arguing in bad faith, you’d at least acknowledge that the proximity of the two dates could be indicative of correlation, if not causation. But instead you just focus on cutesy trolling. So yeah, have fun with that. LOL I don’t think you actually understand these concepts. It isn’t impossible, you merely have to admit its an opinion you have, not a fact. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/136 "2022-11-21T21:39:04Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > CCP has been focusing for a while on what I think of as “graphics bloat”. IE, “hey we can’t think of any new content/gameplay so instead we’re going to put in BRIGHT GLARING nebulae, shinier ships, glowier menus, blinking lights and neon bars and call it a ‘content release’.” > > The games been getting laggier, I agree 100% > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Until people can come up with actual, gameplay activities that would be better achieved in-station with an avatar rather than using the regular UI, there’s no purpose to WiS in EVE other than “we need more graphics bloat”. I’m surprised to see you post this, especially when considering how long you’ve been playing Eve. You were here during the time after the infamous ‘Summer Of Rage’ when there were various WiS threads posted with all kinds of Avatar based gameplay ideas, right? And I’m not talking about emoting / dancing / gambling stuff. I’m talking about actual gameplay content. [Anyway, took a while to find this old post containing some of my own ideas for WiS Avatar gameplay
](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-return-to-the-captains-lounge-or-what-ever-it-was-called/294705/15) ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/137 "2022-11-21T22:21:55Z")
Yes, I was here, and yes, I reviewed a lot of those discussions. And in general they boiled down to: - People designing interior station maps you could wander around in. - People postulating an entire ground combat system, weapons options, arenas etc. - People blue-skying “station invasions, takeovers, and raids” using the above complete ground combat system. - People talking about “Second life in space” where you could run shops and set up trading booths and have special in-station/WiS goods that could only be traded in-station. - People talking about having in-station “computer interfaces” to things like PI, market, FW maps etc. that are already faster and easier from your ship. Etc. etc. It all boils down to vague ideas of “things we could do on a ground map”, that involves either CCP developing a level of programming skill they’ve never possessed (new ground combat systems), or basically adding a whole new “second life” mini-game to EVE which has little impact or interaction on the spaceship game. Many of those notions (beyond “player ground combat” and “opening shops”) wouldn’t even involve character interaction. They’d be essentialy solo avatar play. CCP only has so many resources, and they’ve proven time and again they have a hard time turning those resources into anything resembling “significant game development”. In an ideal world, sure they could follow Star Trek Online and other games, and implement an entire ground side of the game. (As a note, ground play and “Walking in stations/ships” is a decidedly minority activity even in STO - which is _designed_ to support it.) But CCP is far from ideal, and so **in my own opinion** , any “gameplay option” involving WiS would need to be something very minimal that doesn’t involve too much new coding (other than the avatar mode itself). That’s not a yea or a nay to the concept of WiS
 that’s just practical evaluation of CCP’s development capability. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/138 "2022-11-21T22:30:02Z")
CCP should stop showing avatars in ads and movies doing anything else than standing still. STOP LYING TO PEOPLE WATCHING THOSE. We cant walk in game! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/139 "2022-11-21T22:36:08Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > “ **New EVE Career** : sit at a desk and process shipping manifests for an NPC corp” doesn’t exactly add a lot of sparkle to the game, IMO. It does sound on par with the general excitment levels of PvE tasks in EvE, however. Make it generate isk and people will still do it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/140 "2022-11-21T22:42:39Z")
I’d like to have my avatar drawing shapes on a big black board for Project Discovery. Especially if you get some nice butt jiggle physics. Mr Epeen đŸ•¶ ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/141 "2022-11-21T22:48:08Z")
Obviously when they would add walking, they would also have to add reasons for walking, and those reasons would need other actions to perform. Some may include sitting, pushing buttons, opening doors, laying, running, swinging arms, swinging legs, shooting firearms, drinking, eating, dancing, pushing objects or others, being pushed by objects or others, taking shower, washing hands, greeting, saluting, etc. If only they would not do that for other game, only for EVE
 ---
**Author:** ![x123xxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/x123xxx/32/247890_2.png) [@x123xxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/x123xxx)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076/142 "2022-11-22T00:38:09Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > they were leaving CCP to do their own thing independently It’s a common practice to say that and never live up to it. I hope PA does help with certain aspects of the game though. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > CCP should stop showing avatars in ads and movies doing anything else than standing still. Great point! > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Especially if you get some nice butt jiggle physics. SMH > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > taking shower What could possibly go wrong? 😋 * * * [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-cancels-wis-and-then-tease-it/385076.md?page=8)