# CCP change how margin trade works. Why is marginal trading scams allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880 "2019-12-23T01:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/21 "2019-12-23T02:53:06Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > I’m not sure what the scam is? Set a sell order for a rare item at 1 billion ISK. Set a buy order for that item at 1.5 billion ISK. The victim sees the buy order and buys the item from you at 1 billion ISK to fill your buy order. But when they try to sell to you your wallet is empty, the transaction fails, and they’re left holding an item they paid too much for and your alt gets the 1 billion ISK. The scam depends on the item being rare enough that they can’t just get it somewhere else, but even if they do the buy order still fails and you just have to reset the scam without making any profit on that attempt. > How is this a “scam”? Because the more appropriate behavior is for market orders that can’t be filled to be removed from the market, or at least temporarily disabled and highlighted as “not available right now”. It shouldn’t display as a legitimate order if it can’t be completed. ---
**Author:** ![Calder\_Torres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calder_torres/32/293632_2.png) [@Calder\_Torres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calder_Torres)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/22 "2019-12-23T02:55:44Z")
How much money did you lose OP? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/23 "2019-12-23T03:32:22Z")
None, the item still has no real value. So I just posted it at the same price…hence it’s my “Painting” on the wall. It looks like I’m a billionaire, maybe some other idiot will relieve me of the burden of this painting. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/24 "2019-12-23T03:35:01Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > I fell for the margin trading scam around a decade ago. Never happened again. Yeah I don’t think it’ll be happening to me again, but it’s basically at the expense of an efficient trading system. While it’s obvious to me now…that large ticket items might not be able to be “bought”, because of how dumbly the “Margin Trade” mechanic is built… I just have no more interest in doing sell-to-buy orders now because of it…total waste of time. This broken mechanic 100% explains why Jita is the only real trade hub in the game, by 100sTrillions of isk…it’s because if you can’t trust the buyer your’re trading with, why move items at all, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/25 "2019-12-23T03:42:22Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > I have it trained all the way up, when I’m actively trading it’s rare that I can fulfil all of my obligations from my balance via buy orders if they were all filled in a short time. > > The margin trading skill enables me to use cash flow from sell orders to cover my obligations; “fixing” affects myself, and others who also trade, more than it affects scammers. This would be “normal” except there’s no broker to cover the difference. Which is what exists in the real world. So it’s a stupid mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/26 "2019-12-23T03:45:21Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > I’m not sure what the scam is? > > The guy set up a buy order because he wanted to buy some items at a certain price. Maybe he had a rough patch and lost money, so the buy order fails. How is this a “scam”? > > Sounds like someone just got too greedy and overvalued the worth of a particular item that they can’t sell anymore. So you deny that there even is a scam? No wonder most the forum thinks you’re the dumbest on here. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/27 "2019-12-23T03:55:25Z")
That’s not a scam, i use that mechanic every day without scamming people. Some people use it to scam noobs, but the trick is so obvious that you don’t fall for it twice… unless your brain is completely FUBAR. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/28 "2019-12-23T03:56:41Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > That’s not a scam, i use that mechanic every day without scamming people. It’s a scam because that’s not HOW it works, in anywhere except a broken game mechanic. You do not just get to say “sorry I can’t pay you now bye.” ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/29 "2019-12-23T03:57:33Z")
“I want to place a buy order?” “Do you have the money?” “No.” “_Then get the ■■■■ out_” ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/30 "2019-12-23T03:58:38Z")
You know, video game, 20000 years in the future, immortal beings… fantasy… ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/31 "2019-12-23T03:59:09Z")
Yeah, lame excuse for bad game mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/32 "2019-12-23T04:00:25Z")
bad because you fell for it, that’s all ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/33 "2019-12-23T04:01:14Z")
No, bad because that’s not how it should work. You should be compelled to PAY for your buy order eventually, no where in the world are you allowed to “buy something on margin” and not eventually pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/34 "2019-12-23T04:02:06Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > no where in the world that’s it babe, nowhere in the wolrd, only in Jita… ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/35 "2019-12-23T04:03:43Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > that’s it babe, nowhere in the wolrd, only in Jita… Yeah because it’s a bad game mechanic that obviously needs the same normalcy that common sense made. A broker that compels payment, I suggest it in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/36 "2019-12-23T04:04:41Z")
Think of it this way…if you are a LEGIT buyer…why would you NOT want to have deferred payments through the system I talk about? It means ANYONE can fullfill ALL your buy orders, safely. And you pay over time…which is the point of the margin. The fact you are arguing against this means you’re too stupid to know what you’re even doing and why. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/37 "2019-12-23T04:06:32Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > you’re too stupid to know what you’re even doing and why. I’m using an existing mechanic (with it’s pros and cons) to my profit… and you lost money to it… who is the idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/38 "2019-12-23T04:07:38Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > I’m using an existing mechanic (with it’s pros and cons) to my profit… and you lost money to it… who is the idiot? No you’re getting short changed by fraudsters who cause people to not want to use the buy order system. LOL You say you are using it to your profit but you actively REFUSE to improve the system so everyone wants to actually participate. Rather you prefer to just sit there with a stick up your rear looking like a fool wondering why no one is joining you. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/40 "2019-12-23T04:10:04Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > that’s it babe, nowhere in the wolrd, only in Jita Except you _can’t_ do it in Jita just because EVE is a fantasy world. If you make a buy contract you have to put the cash in escrow up front and can’t decline to pay if someone tries to accept. If you make a sell order and have cash in your wallet to cover it you can’t decline to pay if someone tries to accept, you automatically pay it and get the item. The ONLY time you can say “nope, just kidding” and cancel a buy offer when someone tries to take it is through a nonsensical and counter-intuitive mechanic requiring a specific set of circumstances to exploit it. This isn’t EVE being a lawless world where fraud is accepted, it’s one specific mechanic working in a way that nothing else does, for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/41 "2019-12-23T04:12:31Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > no one is joining you. What for? i just said i know the mechanic and i use it for my profit… you live in “what if my uncle was my aunt” land and get offended when reality spank you… The mechanic IS, and some people use it… some to make legit profit, others to scam. Get over it buddy, because you won’t be able to change things by whining on the forum like that… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880.md?page=3)