# CCP change how margin trade works. Why is marginal trading scams allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880 "2019-12-23T01:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/102 "2019-12-23T20:30:55Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > But more to the point, no order is guaranteed on the market until it is filled. All orders are guaranteed until they are filled or canceled, except for the margin trading scam. The only people who fall for it, are the people who are not aware that the usual way the game works is inconsistent in that case. Once you know it, you can on the opposite search for items that are being used for this scam, and place orders to cut the seller. I did it, it’s fun but a waste of time (just not worth it). Still it’s an awfully designed mechanism, that uses lack of knowledge of new players to make them believe there is a profit opportunity. It’s not about greed of players, it’s about a shitty mechanism, and players being not aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/103 "2019-12-23T20:34:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The only people who fall for it, are the people who are not aware that the usual way the game works is inconsistent in that case I love how all the smart players consistently call out the stupid aclowns like Scoots Chobo. Consistently. On this exact point that Andersen now also throws into the face of the stupid aclowns. I can only assume the stupid aclowns are so poor they got nothing worth trading so hence their disregard of a broken mechanic. We know Scoots Chobo is poor. Because he doesnt dare leave Null. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/104 "2019-12-23T20:37:01Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > I love how all the smart players consistently call out the stupid aclowns like Scoots Chobo. Consistently. On this exact point that Andersen now also throws into the face of the stupid aclowns. please, that’s completely out of topic, and a personal aggression. You would make yourself a favor by just ignoring the people who don’ bring anything. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/105 "2019-12-23T20:37:54Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > please, that’s completely out of topic, and a personal aggression. You would make yourself a favor by just ignoring the people who don’ bring anything You’ve known me long enough to know I prefer it this way haha. It in no way reflects on your points or character ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/106 "2019-12-23T20:46:20Z")
When they’re marginal only … … why does it matter? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Siigari\_Kitawa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siigari_kitawa/32/451235_2.png) [@Siigari\_Kitawa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siigari_Kitawa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/109 "2019-12-23T22:05:59Z")
Heh, I like Gowa’s idea there. Look, at the end of the day, if somebody says they’re selling something (looking at you, Jita contracts) and you see that there is a profit to be had, I am going to say the first question you should be asking yourself is “why is he not profiting off of it, then?” Follow that line of thinking for most things in this game and you’ll be ship-shape. Margin trading scams are so easy to spot anywhere. That being said, I think that some sort of NSF fee would actually be pretty nice, because then if somebody is obnoxiously advertising their Ahremen’s Modified Thermal Plating in Jita, I can ding them with some NSFs because I have a lot of that obscure stuff. lol ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/110 "2019-12-23T22:24:38Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > You can just put up a buy order and take it down when the mark buys your overpriced bait. Except, again: 1. This requires you to be active and monitoring your wallet/orders when they take the bait, and you lose ISK if they do the transaction while you aren’t ready to pull the buy order. 2. If they get the item from somewhere else they can fill your buy order without alerting you that a transaction is coming and you are forced to overpay for an item you don’t want. The key to the scam is that the auto-fail exploit removes the risk of loss for the scammer. If you had to do it with manual editing of market orders the whole thing would almost certainly disappear because the risk of loss is too high. > Orders on the market can be manipulated and should not be taken as a definitive indication of the value of an item. They aren’t a definitive indication of an item’s _value_, but they are in all other cases an indication of its _buy or sell price at the moment_. In all other cases a market order can be claimed to buy/sell at the listed price and once you claim it the transaction executes and nothing can stop it. Same thing with contracts, someone may claim a contract before you but if you are the one who claims it you are guaranteed to execute the trade on the specified terms. The ONLY case where you can post a fake buy or sell order that can’t be claimed is by exploiting this one specific mechanic in a way that makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Karynn\_Denton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karynn_denton/32/468090_2.png) [@Karynn\_Denton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karynn_Denton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/111 "2019-12-23T22:34:01Z")
OP’s personality was a perfect match for this scam. Good to see everything working as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Mara\_Pahrdi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mara_pahrdi/32/277369_2.png) [@Mara\_Pahrdi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mara_Pahrdi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/123 "2019-12-23T23:29:25Z")
Well, back in the day he would by now have made it to Kane’s list 😀. ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/124 "2019-12-24T00:19:46Z")
Looks like @ISD_Norros or @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode need to attend to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/125 "2019-12-24T00:21:16Z")
---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/126 "2019-12-24T00:21:28Z")
Leave RL politics out of this, thanks. Opened. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/127 "2019-12-24T00:29:43Z")
---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/128 "2019-12-24T03:05:28Z")
Some people still have and use ■■■■ lists 🙂 It’s just slightly more difficult these days. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/129 "2019-12-24T03:28:43Z")
> [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > I have a hard time filling buys because everyone thinks I’m pulling a margin scam This is not happening. You are imagining things and over-estimating your own importance to the Jita market. ---
**Author:** ![Siigari\_Kitawa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siigari_kitawa/32/451235_2.png) [@Siigari\_Kitawa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siigari_Kitawa)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/130 "2019-12-24T05:27:36Z")
Ok soI had a hunch,and I checked some old patch notes. It turns out there used to be a 10% fine for failing an order. I wonder why they removed it? > **[Improvements and Bug Fixes | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/article/improvements-and-bug-fixes-34)** > > Bug Fixes and Improvements Manufacturing: Tech Level 2 (TL2) Tech Level 2 (TL2) introduces new possibilities into the world of EVE for manufacturing and researching. Various new TL2 blueprints will be available for manufacturing TL2 items. TL2 items... Read Market section. ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/131 "2019-12-24T12:17:40Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > your own importance Why in the world did your mind even think to post this, just for one second think about the negativity you are posting where nothing I posted even said I thought I alone am the reason the market moves, but you took what I posted as some grandiose statement, and people wonder why others keep away from them, maybe it’s the toxicity. ---
**Author:** ![Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brewlar_kuvakei/32/422694_2.png) [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brewlar_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/132 "2019-12-24T12:50:02Z")
K remove all npc sources of isk, delete insurance and bounties because they are even more absurd. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/133 "2019-12-24T17:59:34Z")
Merry Christmas, Pedro! I’ve contracted you a PLEX! 🙂 ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/8/181480538818972e0a796c1abb9127dfc399e9b4.png) ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880/134 "2019-12-24T18:06:49Z")
> [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > Merry Christmas, Pedro! I just realized you were handing out 1 plex. Not 500. Lol. Sorry for begging for a Christmas gift of 1.7b lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-change-how-margin-trade-works-why-is-marginal-trading-scams-allowed/207880.md?page=7)