# CCP hands over FREE Faction Citadels to Powerbloc Leadership after Outpost Conversion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456 "2018-04-26T19:46:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/62 "2018-04-28T10:52:15Z")
> [@Graz3r](#): > > I am also allowed to give my opinion. If you don’t like it STFU and don’t say a word. Its that simple. Ah, the typical approach of people who are crying. Rant about how it’s their right to give an opinion, but everyone else should just shut up. Opinions are fine. Unfortunately, your logic isnt. But your tears are glorious. Meanwhile the powerblocs that normally feast on you are out flipping outposts knowing that they are going to gain some great assets out of this. That’s the big difference. You are here just crying while they are just doing. ---
**Author:** ![Graz3r](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/graz3r/32/69019_2.png) [@Graz3r](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Graz3r)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/63 "2018-04-28T10:54:57Z")
Yeh, only other groups big enough can. Why, don’t you like the idea of them being non-unanchorable but still destructible. Because if that is true, then you prove my point yet again about ccp and the powerblocs and their leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Graz3r](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/graz3r/32/69019_2.png) [@Graz3r](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Graz3r)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/64 "2018-04-28T10:57:22Z")
I guess you are part of those powerbloc leadership then that don’t like other peoples ideas that are against the grain of your ideas. Convert outposts to faction citadels, but they should be non-unanchorable, but can be destroyed. That’s in line with eve is it not, or is it not in line with you greedy grubby little sticky fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/65 "2018-04-28T11:01:26Z")
> [@Graz3r](#): > > I guess you are part of those powerbloc leadership then that don’t like other peoples ideas that are against the grain of your ideas. Lol no. I not in a powerbloc at all. I just find your tears hilarious. Nothing stops you from growing to challenge their power. They did it. So can you. Instead though, you are choosing to whine to CCP to prevent other players from doing what they can do, and you are doing nothing at all yourself. That deserves no respect. You are entitled to your opinion, but having an opinion doesn’t make it valid. It’s weak and pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Graz3r](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/graz3r/32/69019_2.png) [@Graz3r](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Graz3r)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/66 "2018-04-28T11:11:26Z")
Opinions no matter how calculated they are will never be to your liking unless they are according to how you want things to be. I also did not ask for our respect. Why would i from idiot trolls like yourself that consistently tell you your opinion is stupid because it does not follow on according to your way of thinking. There is no tears, only stupid people will consistently think that because they have a massive chip on their shoulder thinking that only their way of thinking is worth discussing. That’s pretty typical of a commi mindset. If everyone were the same in the world, and everyone thought exactly the same, would it be a world worth living in. Nah, unlike you, i am not interested in people with only their side, i have suggested on a few replies what changes can be made, but i guess you don’t like reading. That’s your problem. So if someone has a different opinion or idea to you, and don’t think like you, you hate on them and troll them. Yeh, you really don’t deserve respect either, and you being just as pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/67 "2018-04-28T11:17:19Z")
> [@Graz3r](#): > > Opinions no matter how calculated they are will never be to your liking unless they are according to how you want things to be… > > Why would i from idiot trolls like yourself that consistently tell you your opinion is stupid because it does not follow on according to your way of thinking. This is where I think we differ. I am totally fine with people that have other opinions. The game has playstyles and space to suit lots of different people, all with different opinions. People that think PVE is the best…no problem. More power to them. Those that want to gank…it’s a perfectly good choice of play Those that want to explore, or mine, do industry, scam or pvp…no matter what, the game allows for them all and each is a perfectly fine choice based on the differing opinions we all have. However, the level of thinking you currently have is that you should be able to chose what you do, but others shouldn’t. CCP should step in to limit other players, simply because you don’t like what they can do. That’s the bit that doesn’t deserve any respect. If you believe you have a right to chose what you do, then you should also respect that others have that same right and crying to CCP to change the rules of the game to limit someone else is weak. It’s pathetic. Everyone has a right to their play and if you want to stop them, then take responsibility for it to go stop them, not cry to the game devs to do it instead. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/68 "2018-04-28T11:20:22Z")
> [@Graz3r](#): > > Who said i wanted to be a CSM. I’m not a politician, i simply know how politicians think. You were _complaining_ about CSMs being politicians. For that reason I was asking you what _you_ would do in their place. Your answer was “nothing”, because you do not want to be a CSM? (Shrug). > [@Graz3r](#): > > Who owns the majority of the csm positions. Who are the powerblocs. I have absolutely no idea. That is part of the reason why I also asked you which CSMs you wanted replaced - “name and shame”. Why have you chosen not to answer that? > [@Graz3r](#): > > Try also putting 1+1 together. I don’t even need to explain Yes, you do. Because I am a carebear with a very small brain, I have no idea who you are talking about … “powerblocs”, “CSM politicians”? Who? Give me names. Who are you talking about? > [@Graz3r](#): > > Yet again i prove my point. I’m sorry … did you actually make one? You don’t like politicians. I get that. You think some (or maybe all?) of the CSM are politicians, with vested interests, but will not name them. Plus, you are not prepared to take their place. So, again… what **_is_** your point? What are _you_ actually proposing to do to change things? Are you looking for support for your ideas? Names on a petition that you will submit to CCP? What? ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/69 "2018-04-28T11:28:09Z")
> [@Graz3r](#): > > handing the entire game and everything in it to the powerblocs making them even richer while the other little guys that helps build those get nothing Nobody cares about the little guy in EVE or in life. Welcome to EVE. Welcome to life. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/70 "2018-04-28T11:49:47Z")
> [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](#): > > Nobody cares about the little guy in EVE or in life. I care about _you_ Sindara. Have a hug doll. lol. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/71 "2018-04-28T12:03:26Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > I care about you Sindara. Have a hug doll. lol. 🤗 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/72 "2018-04-28T12:44:24Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The CSM are a bunch of nerds, elected by other nerds who go and try to advise and yes, influence the Devs. But in terms of power members of the CSM have very little. To equate them to someone in parliment, congress, city hall, or the like is just silly in the extreme. Of course the CSM doesn’t have that kind of power, but that wasn’t the question, now was it? You asked for politicians with that power and I answered with example nations where politicians with those powers do exist. The CSM itself is more comparable to a lobby group than to politicians anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/73 "2018-04-28T12:59:23Z")
To bad for you, you’re better at name-calling than playing EvE. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Buldath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_buldath/32/381437_2.png) [@ISD\_Buldath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Buldath)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/74 "2018-04-28T13:46:18Z")
Getting in on the \*\*\*\* fest. For real though, EVE Favors the Bold, and the Bold favors large numbers, organization and many friends. That’s the way EVE is. CCP Announced many months ago that they will be making outposts into faction citadels to move forward. This is old news. Move on. EVE will Continue to grow and progress regardless. Outposts are Old, Legacy. Citadels are new. New Code, new opportunities. Those who are not strong enough to adapt become victims of those who are. I believe someone a few dozen posts above linked the proper video response to this rant. ~Buldath ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/75 "2018-04-28T14:38:47Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > To bad for you, you’re better at name-calling than playing EvE. I found the name-calling quite stale and surely not on par with the current meta. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/76 "2018-04-28T14:51:57Z")
Correct. He is THAT bad at playing EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Karyn\_Kaundur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karyn_kaundur/32/70562_2.png) [@Karyn\_Kaundur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karyn_Kaundur)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/77 "2018-04-28T15:17:54Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > This is just laughable. People are going to stop playing a game they enjoy because their leadership tells them to…it is literally like hurting yourself to get your way. Does this tactic work with you in general? When you want a discount at a store do you pull out a knife and say, “Give me 20% off or I’ll cut myself!” I get what you’re trying to say here, but yes people do this type of thing over more serious things. Going on strike is a notable example, consumer boycotts a lesser one. It only works as an organized group, but it has been used for decades as a means to accomplish certain, arguably coercive, goals. So yes, the tactic does work in general. It has, however, a major flaw: it requires there to be no alternatives. It is this fact which led to government regulation to “protect” those going on strike. While that doesn’t exist in Eve, the basic strategy of getting a group of people, such as large corps/alliances who spend money to stop doing so short term in an attempt to gain something better over a longer term, certainly could. I’m not saying it is happening, just that it most certainly could, could work, and is something we’ve seen outside of Eve for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Morter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_morter/32/31244_2.png) [@Marcus\_Morter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Morter)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/78 "2018-04-28T15:28:28Z")
Well, after 10 minutes of browsing through this thread, i think i finally know what it means to A, be an ignorant bitch and B, completely waste time ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/79 "2018-04-28T16:10:23Z")
Sorry the second paragraph was more to the OP and general audience than you specifically. And yes calling the CSM a lobbying group is much more appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/80 "2018-04-28T16:36:14Z")
> [@Karyn\_Kaundur](#): > > I get what you’re trying to say here, but yes people do this type of thing over more serious things. Going on strike is a notable example, consumer boycotts a lesser one. It only works as an organized group, but it has been used for decades as a means to accomplish certain, arguably coercive, goals. Yes but there is more to it than that. The alliance has to be able to punish/impose costs on those who do not follow their dictates. How do they do that in game? They really can’t. In fact, there is pretty much nothing they can do. I move my ■■■■ to safe stations, drop roles, drop corp and now I am “untouchable” in the sense that they can’t do anything to me _especially_ since they aren’t logging in. Now a labor union can kick you out _and_ they negotiate for closed shops-i.e. once the strike is over you will have a harder time finding employment in that line of work. So it isn’t just “organization” but also the ability to punish defectors. The stronger the ability to punish the fewer defections. > [@Karyn\_Kaundur](#): > > So yes, the tactic does work in general. It has, however, a major flaw: it requires there to be no alternatives. It is this fact which led to government regulation to “protect” those going on strike. While that doesn’t exist in Eve, the basic strategy o Yes and in economics and political science this is called rent seeking. Using the coercive power of the state to obtain unearned economic benefits (rents). This is usually bad in that granting on group, firm, etc. a comparative advantage necessarily means you are granting other groups or firms a comparative _disadvantage_. This introduces a distortion which will often have bad consequences unless it is to counter a pre-existing distortion. And that latter condition is hard to quantify and it is even harder to endure that the new distortion offsets it. And of course everyone who is seeking rents will rely on that latter condition irrespective of whether it is true or not and/or will overstate its magnitude. > [@Karyn\_Kaundur](#): > > While that doesn’t exist in Eve, the basic strategy of getting a group of people, such as large corps/alliances who spend money to stop doing so short term in an attempt to gain something better over a longer term, certainly could. Not really. A NS powerbloc unsubbing might as well hand over their space to others. The costs, in game, would be enormous. So the gains they ate seeking would have to be just as large if not larger. The OP is full if drivel. Cheap, nonsensical political beliefs that are as bad as the romantic views of politicians that some people have (ie that politicians are altruistic). > [@Karyn\_Kaundur](#): > > I’m not saying it is happening, just that it most certainly could, could work, and is something we’ve seen outside of Eve for a very long time. Not really. Yes it happens out of game but the underlying process is quite different. There relatively little that cann be done to a defector in the OP’s “theory”. It is just rubbish spewed by a butthurt player. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456/81 "2018-04-28T16:40:59Z")
Adding on to my comments about rent seeking IRL the rent seeker compensates the grantor of rents. This can be as banal as a monetary payoff or more subtle like support during an election. Building a plant in the grantor’s district. Future employment and so forth. What does the CSM have that they can give to CCP? More subs? How do they do that? Serious question here. IMO the OP’s position is simply laughable nonsense. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hands-over-free-faction-citadels-to-powerbloc-leadership-after-outpost-conversion/72456.md?page=5)